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Thread: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

      
  1. #51
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I'd be very interested in any assessor's view of this interpretation.

    I'd be amazed if 30 players plus subs and men with dogs wouldn't be totally bemused by such.

    I have some sympathy with the full-back-non-catch scenario because at least its not C&O that the ballk did miss any contcat with arms/hands. But when the hands get nowhere near it? really?

    If that isn't what that quote means then fair enough. But it sounds like it.

    didds
    As I said, I don't think a strict definition is very useful and it'd have to be done on a case by case basis.

    A player looking the other way with his arms by his sides while the ball bounces off him, I wouldn't give as a knock on.

    But as a rule of thumb, if the player is clearly trying to catch the ball and it goes forward off him, I'd expect that to be given as a knock on whether he got a hand to it or not.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    FWIW I agree - applying the strict letter of the law, whichever way your opinion falls on that, doesn't make sense in thus scenario as presented. Giving a knock on seems to me to make sense.
    Last edited by tewdric; 08-03-19 at 11:03.

  3. #53

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    As I said, I don't think a strict definition is very useful and it'd have to be done on a case by case basis.

    A player looking the other way with his arms by his sides while the ball bounces off him, I wouldn't give as a knock on.

    But as a rule of thumb, if the player is clearly trying to catch the ball and it goes forward off him, I'd expect that to be given as a knock on whether he got a hand to it or not.
    It has to be at least viable though surely. The OP description doesn't sound as if the arms and hands are anywhere near the ball/shin. giving a KO for that is just going to appear extremely odd.

    didds

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tewdric View Post
    FWIW I agree - applying the strict letter of the law, whichever way your opinion falls on that, doesn't make sense in thus scenario as presented. Giving a knock on seems to me to make sense.
    even though the OP description doesnt mention hands and arms anywhere near the ball?

    didds

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Its a 50/50 call try for or penalty against if you are purist about it. The law doesn't seem to me to provide a satisfactory answer to this one, which is why its such an excellent question.

    If you were asked by World Rugby to write a law revision specifically to deal with this "unintentional shinning", for want of a better phrase (other body parts are available), what would your sanction, if any, be?

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    I think the direction the Laws have moved are that he was trying to get possession and lost it forward. KO.
    Strange as that might seem

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think the direction the Laws have moved are that he was trying to get possession and lost it forward. KO.
    Strange as that might seem

    If anyone is going to call this a knock on (see OP quote below) they need serious retraining.

    He contacts the ball with his shin and it thus goes forward into the Blue's in goal.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    It has to be at least viable though surely. The OP description doesn't sound as if the arms and hands are anywhere near the ball/shin. giving a KO for that is just going to appear extremely odd.
    Probably, yeah. I'd have to see the incident, but from the sounds of it I doubt I'd see anything C&O enough to blow up for - neither a penalty nor a scrum.

    But where would we be if we didn't debate the minutiae of the laws?

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    But where would we be if we didn't debate the minutiae of the laws?
    It makes sense to discuss tricky situations where the laws may be unclear (or on occasion make no sense). However believing that the wording of the laws can be construed to give THE right answer is a vain hope.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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