Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 93

Thread: NO on forward pasess

      
  1. #51

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,306
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1416

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    A player running toward his own goal line who makes a flat pass has reduced the backward velocity of the ball (to zero)
    It's not s forward pass.
    In order to change the forward velocity of -10 to 0,the player must give the ball a velocity in the opposite direction.

    A flat pass makes no change to the forward velocity. If it starts at -10, it remains at -10. (Earlier you produced a +4 from somewhere.)

    Is the player he passes to between him and the DBL? I find your description very confusing.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #52

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,306
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1416

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    and if you'd asked me a week ago Id haev 100% supported you. In fact I still 100% support you - with the caveat that NO expressly says that is not what they do _now_ (in that chat with BCM666 linked to at the OP). If we wish to be pedantic to be fair to NO he says "hands" not "arms" ...

    didds
    AIUI NO is describing the technique used to decide if a pass is forward; he is not defining such a pass. The definition remains that a pass must not go forward relative to the passer (as opposed to relative to the ground).
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #53

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,306
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1416

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think this works perfectly well in the community game

    But in the pro game when the TMO has been asked to check if a pass was forward ... Not so much. For that we need clear parameter
    They could use Hawkeye.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #54
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Durham
    Grade
    Level 9
    Join Date
    02 Sep 13
    Posts
    562
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    112

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think this works perfectly well in the community game

    But in the pro game when the TMO has been asked to check if a pass was forward ... Not so much. For that we need clear parameter
    But going back to the podcast, NO was advocating a clear and obvious reason to bring it back, so the TMO can check whilst play goes on. As Brian said, if it needs more than two replays is it clear and obvious? Do they nee a degree in physics? Do they need to know wind speed? I don't think so. The good ref and TMO combos are managing to make these sort of decisions without stopping the game - I do honestly think it can be that simple

  5. #55

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,306
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1416

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    But going back to the podcast, NO was advocating a clear and obvious reason to bring it back, so the TMO can check whilst play goes on. As Brian said, if it needs more than two replays is it clear and obvious? Do they nee a degree in physics? Do they need to know wind speed? I don't think so. The good ref and TMO combos are managing to make these sort of decisions without stopping the game - I do honestly think it can be that simple
    C&O is all we have in the community game. At international level with ARs, TMOs, and technical aids people are entitled to expect a little more precision. However top level games are played to very fine margins, which makes it harder to judge with more close decisions.

    Too many people (including a lot of players) do not understand the law properly and measure a pass by its path over the ground. Such people use slomo to "prove" a pass was forward.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  6. #56
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Durham
    Grade
    Level 9
    Join Date
    02 Sep 13
    Posts
    562
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    112

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    C&O is all we have in the community game. At international level with ARs, TMOs, and technical aids people are entitled to expect a little more precision. However top level games are played to very fine margins, which makes it harder to judge with more close decisions.
    Agree, but even NO was calling for clear and obvious in some decision making, scrum sanction decisions been one

  7. #57

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    16,226
    Thanks (Received)
    122
    Likes (Received)
    1558

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    In order to change the forward velocity of -10 to 0,the player must give the ball a velocity in the opposite direction.

    A flat pass makes no change to the forward velocity. If it starts at -10, it remains at -10. (Earlier you produced a +4 from somewhere.)

    Is the player he passes to between him and the DBL? I find your description very confusing.
    A player is running toward his own goal line.
    Velocity -10

    As he crosses the 22m line he passes the ball along the 22m line to a team mate.

    Forward velocity of the ball =0

    It's not a forward pass , even though he has changed the velocity of the ball from -10 to zero

  8. #58

    Referees in England
    Wedgie's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Kent
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    11 Oct 11
    Posts
    183
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    22

    Smile Re: NO on forward pasess

    Barnsey mentioned the forward past thing in the podcast that was mentioned on here a few weeks ago referring to referee-TMO interactions.

    The example was Slade's try against Ireland (from 3:07 here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=926MDAqzkbI).

    May clearly received the ball closer to the Ireland goal line than from where Slade passed it. But when May received the ball, Slade was still in front of May as he had carried on running at the same(?) speed.

    WB was saying that the referee group looked at this pass post-match and all agreed it was clearly not a forward pass - but that he was thankful that it was not referred on the day as it would have been an absolute nightmare to explain to the fan on the street that it was not a forward pass.

    (I'm going to see if I can save this clip to my phone for those post-match bar conversations about why I didn't disallow that try for the "forward pass" )

  9. #59
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,751
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    A player is running toward his own goal line.
    Velocity -10

    As he crosses the 22m line he passes the ball along the 22m line to a team mate.

    Forward velocity of the ball =0

    It's not a forward pass , even though he has changed the velocity of the ball from -10 to zero
    Really? That's not my understanding. I thought a throw forward was simply relative to the thrower. The situation you describe (which, TBF, I don't think I've ever seen) sounds like that.

  10. #60

    Referees in America
    thepercy's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    New York State Rugby Referees Society
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    21 Sep 13
    Posts
    585
    Thanks (Received)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    79

    Default Re: NO on forward pasess

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think that any pass that travels backward over the ground .. ie toward the throwers own DBL cannot be a forward pass, irrespective of the direction the arms move , and irrespective of whether the thrower added or subtracted to the forward velocity of the ball.
    Why do you think this? Even after the (paraphrased) definition was provided to you? Do you accept that a pass that goes towards your opponents DBL can be not thrown forward?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •