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Thread: Application of Laws

      
  1. #31
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    I agree with this, but the context is someone discussing a women's match on a forum, not talking directly to the players. I don't think the London Irish fans chanting "come on you boys in green" is infantilising either, even though that's (nominally) talking to rather than about them.

    As an aside: over here the senior matches are arranged that the top men's division (ereklasse, roughly translates as premiership, about RFU level 5-ish according to expat players here) play on Saturday afternoon after the age grades, all other senior teams on Sunday according to how high a division they play. Our women's team are prioritised between the men's 2nd and 3rd teams (we have 4); if the men's 2nd dropped a division I believe the women's team would be the top non-premiership club team and take the "best" afternoon match slot.

    Having them organised with youth teams as crossref describes certainly sends an undesirable message, though.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Over here the women play on Sundays .. after the girls and boys are finished.
    Do adult women play to the full laws in the RFU? I have friend that said when they (adult women) toured in the UK, they were made to use U-19 law variations. Is this normal practice, or just an anomaly?

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It's actually important.
    I know you can't see that - and neither can OB - but that you can't see it is right at the heart of the battle women face.

    Simon posted something very eloquent on the RPS thread, the last time we discussed male attitudes to women's rugby



    does that sound a bit like the situation in the OP ?

    No doubt everyone will gleefully tell me the game in the OP had a female ref. But I am not sure that makes a difference.

    QUESTION : are women's elite games reffed differently from men's elite games ? If so why?
    I know the thread has moved one but I can see the point, I do agree the language was not great and is possibly symptomatic of a wider issue about how women are referred to or treated in society, I just thought it shouldn't be the focus of peoples replies as it was not related to the point being made.

    Keeping off topic, if you referee a women's match, how do you refer to the players? In mens rugby I often use lads, fella and gents, boys. In women rugby I have used ladies, girls, guys. What do you think is appropriate?
    Last edited by Zebra1922; 14-03-19 at 14:03.

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Do adult women play to the full laws in the RFU? I have friend that said when they (adult women) toured in the UK, they were made to use U-19 law variations. Is this normal practice, or just an anomaly?
    It depends on the league levels AIUI. I understand the reaso9ning is that very generally speaking ladies/women/female/girls/non-male rugby players TEND to have started ,much later in their lives as a demographic so this is to reflect likely skill/ability/safety levels etc.

    Im not defending it, merely reporting what I understand

    didds

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Do adult women play to the full laws in the RFU? I have friend that said when they (adult women) toured in the UK, they were made to use U-19 law variations. Is this normal practice, or just an anomaly?
    It's an urban myth, and another great source of frustration bamongst female players that refs are constantly turning up asking that . Again it is belittling that people find it plausible

    The Rfu women's leagues play the same laws as men
    And so has every friendly I have reffed

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    The fact that the best contribution some people can make to this serious thread is to change women to 'wymyn' also illustrates what an uphill battle it is for women athletes to be treated with respect.

    Cue the 'banter' defence ....

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It's an urban myth, and another great source of frustration bamongst female players that refs are constantly turning up asking that . Again it is belittling that people find it plausible

    The Rfu women's leagues play the same laws as men
    And so has every friendly I have reffed
    It's not quite an urban myth - the laws for the men's and women's game are the same now, but that wasn't always the case. See this document going back to 2015 where, subject to league level, 35 minutes each half was played and there was a 1.5m limit on the scrum push https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu..._1_Neutral.pdf

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It's an urban myth, and another great source of frustration bamongst female players that refs are constantly turning up asking that . Again it is belittling that people find it plausible

    The Rfu women's leagues play the same laws as men
    And so has every friendly I have reffed
    Not quite true. Elite and high level competitions from National Challenge 1 upwards are the full set of laws.

    National Challenge 2 and below are indeed governed by the U19 variations - check out the RFU Governance Reg 16 Appendix 1 here: https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...x1_English.pdf
    There is also provision for NC2 and below to play with reduced numbers and still have the matches count towards the league.

    When I refereed women's university sides 15 years ago, they also played U19, though this may now have changed.

    It's important to remember that the women's game is less well-developed than the men's, and so applying U19 to lower level games makes the sport more accessible for those who may be coming to it later in life. The U19 variations do also reduce some of the injury risk, which makes a numbers-constrained women's team more likely to be able to field a full side throughout the season. It's not a very different philosophy than the Return 2 Rugby programme many men's sides are running, which often make similar concessions on the laws (though less formally than Reg 16).
    Last edited by Pablo; 14-03-19 at 15:03.
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    thanks, I stand corrected.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Application of Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    thanks, I stand corrected.
    And for reference, National Challenge 2 is quite a long way down the women's league pyramid. Many of the sides are second teams.
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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