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Thread: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

      
  1. #51

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    Default Re: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

    Well, for me, the very thought of allowing man-marking on a rugby pitch, sends shudders down my spine. Sounds like something from another code, like when soccer split from Union over the tactic of hacking of opponent's shins.
    Back then all rugby referees were adamant that it was acceptable, that’s changed now. In fact it was changed immediately after the schism, back in 1871,
    [a] committee was formed to formulate a set of rules. It comprised three ex-Rugby School pupils, all lawyers; being lawyers they formulated 'laws' not 'rules'. They immediately made "hacking" and "tripping" illegal.
    The odd thing about that is we only see hacking in soccer today, in spite of it being illegal in that code.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 27-03-19 at 17:03.
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  2. #52

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    Default Re: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    I accept you are correct in terms of onside in open play. However given how poorly written the laws of the game are and how little thought has been given by WR to rewriting them, I think we need to push the logic to the extreme, to see if it holds up to the scrutiny. Professional players are going to on match day, so what’s wrong with testing Laws to destruction on here? No lifes were lost in the experiment.
    I think, based on the abject response of Dylan H and James Haskell to Italy's non-ruck, assuming knowledge of laws on the part of many professionals may not be the best course of action.
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  3. #53

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    Default Re: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Well, for me, the very thought of allowing man-marking on a rugby pitch, sends shudders down my spine. Sounds like something from another code, like when soccer split from Union over the tactic of hacking of opponent's shins.
    Back then all rugby referees were adamant that it was acceptable, that’s changed now. In fact it was changed immediately after the schism, back in 1871,The odd thing about that is we only see hacking in soccer today, in spite of it being illegal in that code.
    The FA was founded in 1863, the RFU in 1871.
    The first draft of the FA Rules included:
    IX. A player shall be entitled to run with the ball towards his adversaries' goal if he makes a fair catch, or catches the ball on the first bound; but in the case of a fair catch, if he makes his mark, he shall not then run.
    X. If any player shall run with the ball towards his adversaries' goal, any player on the opposite side shall be at liberty to charge, hold, trip, or hack him, or to wrest the ball from him; but no player shall be held and hacked at the same time

    For some reason running with the ball and hacking were linked, and because hacking was decided against, running with the ball went with it. We had the situation that soccer banned hacking and rugby didn't.

    When England played Scotland in the first rugby international, they had to agree beforehand on some differences between their law books. They agreed that hacking would not be allowed. During the game some players who were used to hacking found it hard to restrain their instinctive reactions and there was almost a mutiny demanding hacking should be allowed. It wasn't.

    Hacking in soccer arises because the only way to tackle is to kick the ball from an opponent's feet. Now that you don't see dribbling as a tactic in rugby, the practice of hacking can easily be sanctioned
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  4. #54

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    Default Re: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    I think, based on the abject response of Dylan H and James Haskell to Italy's non-ruck, assuming knowledge of laws on the part of many professionals may not be the best course of action.
    The problem wasn't ignorance of the laws, but in not knowing how to deal with the tactic (even though it had been tried and proved bad elsewhere). My recollection is that they had started to devise the counter before half time, but I wouldn't swear to that.

    Presumably the Italians had spoken to the referee beforehand to make sure he wasn't caught out as well.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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  5. #55
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are there any offiside lines at a quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    I think, based on the abject response of Dylan H and James Haskell to Italy's non-ruck, assuming knowledge of laws on the part of many professionals may not be the best course of action.
    Haskell was playing in NZ when the Chiefs were using this technique (sparingly), but there it was reffed that they could form a ruck by grabbing a nearby opponent around the tackle area. Poite was ruling that that was *not* a ruck and the Italians had to actively engage, and so the English players had to get clarity on when he would call the ruck. England took far too long to respond, Poite was then inconsistent, it's only the Italians who came out looking good.

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