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Thread: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

      
  1. #31
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    We need a time machine, some call it judge on outcome, but he lands on head and neck, that's dangerous. Anything that is dangerous is against the laws, hence it's sanctionable.

    Do I have some sympathy with the tackler? Yes, there's no one thing that creates this outcome, but the tackle is borderline in timing, height, and arguably appropriate force for player size and age. The sum of all those parts creates a dangerous outcome - especially in youth rugby, so it needs to be sanctioned.

    For the record I don't like judging on outcome, but we have had many, many incidents (eg contact in the air) where outcome has led the sanction as opposed to the force / contact point / intention - so here we are, need to be consistent.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    ... he lands on head and neck, that's dangerous. Anything that is dangerous is against the laws, hence it's sanctionable.

    Winger sprints towards the goal line. Defender approaches so winger tries to side-step him. Winger falls tearing tendons as a result.

    Play was, by the above definition, "dangerous". So whick player was "guilty" of "dangerous play"? The would be tackler or the player side-stepping?

    Answer? Neither, it is just one of those things. There is an inherrent danger in rugby union. Players can't be held to account for things outside their control.

    That is not to say that in this incident play was not dangerous. But an action does not become "sanctionably dangerous" just because a player was injured.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But lifting our heads from the Law Book, if that's legal and normal in age grade rugby then over time that would spell the end of age grade rugby..
    You lift your head from the law book?! Is that possible?

    Penalising and carding actions that didnt break a law is just as bad. We cant be incorrectly and injustly penalising players because the unions havent pulled their heads out of their @sses to address the issues.

    Fortunately our union has seen the issue and started addressing by allowing either hulky kids or slight kids to play up/down age groups more akin to their peers sizes (with consultation and agreement with their parents).
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  4. #34

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by mcroker View Post
    For me he lifts him above the horizontal - perhaps unintentionally as a result of hitting him back so hard, but irrespective of intent the tackled players hips go well above shoulder and then head hits floor.

    PK
    At least a yellow, possibly a red
    You cannot equate mass x speed equalling momentum as a "lifting" action and then applying "lifting tackle" protocols. Imo that's unjust to the tackler.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    That is not to say that in this incident play was not dangerous. But an action does not become "sanctionably dangerous" just because a player was injured.
    Yet that's the picture we're led down in many of the player in the air Citings / TMO reviews which in other games are play on 'rugby incident' the difference being in the latter no one got hurt or landed dangerously.

    So which is it?

  6. #36

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    You lift your head from the law book?! Is that possible?

    Penalising and carding actions that didnt break a law is just as bad. We cant be incorrectly and injustly penalising players because the unions havent pulled their heads out of their @sses to address the issues.

    Fortunately our union has seen the issue and started addressing by allowing either hulky kids or slight kids to play up/down age groups more akin to their peers sizes (with consultation and agreement with their parents).
    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=9&guideline=10

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Yet that's the picture we're led down in many of the player in the air Citings / TMO reviews which in other games are play on 'rugby incident' the difference being in the latter no one got hurt or landed dangerously.

    So which is it?


    WR have ruled on player in the air situations. Here it is down to the referee's evaluation. But clearly just because there is an injury it does not mean the tackler is guilty of anything.
    Last edited by Marc Wakeham; 27-03-19 at 11:03.

  8. #38

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Your point???
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  9. #39

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    You cannot equate mass x speed equalling momentum as a "lifting" action and then applying "lifting tackle" protocols. Imo that's unjust to the tackler.
    Exactly. Either way, even if we thought the tackle was legal, in that clip I would like to think that we would all blow for a safety stoppage at least.

  10. #40
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    WR have ruled on player in the air situations. Here it is down to the referee's evaluation. But clearly just because there is an injury it does not mean the tackler is guilty of anything.
    No, but my original point was that the outcome was dangerous, not that the outcome was an injury, two different things (I can injure myself running in a straight line!) and something that is dangerous is sanctionable in law.

    Of course things that are dangerous don't always relate in injury, unfortunately some WR rulings seem to be the other way round - IMO

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