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Thread: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    So, think about how the parents of the tackled player might feel about this and whether the game should allow that sort of hit a schoolboy level. There are folk on here who thing that very heavy hits that injure are OK as long as they are not late or high, but I don't agree as these hits take folk out of the game and if professionals stops them being able to work.

    Back to this one, it looked like the tackler launched himself at the upper part of the tackled player. If the initial contact was below the shoulders, it certainly subsequently rode up to include contact with head, so for me there is very little doubt that that is a dangerous tackle, and that the tackler needs to have a sit down for at least 10 mins to consider what he had done.

  2. #42

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    So, think about how the parents of the tackled player might feel about this and whether the game should allow that sort of hit a schoolboy level. There are folk on here who thing that very heavy hits that injure are OK as long as they are not late or high, but I don't agree as these hits take folk out of the game and if professionals stops them being able to work.

    Back to this one, it looked like the tackler launched himself at the upper part of the tackled player. If the initial contact was below the shoulders, it certainly subsequently rode up to include contact with head, so for me there is very little doubt that that is a dangerous tackle, and that the tackler needs to have a sit down for at least 10 mins to consider what he had done.
    I think I disagree with every point you make (says the 5'7 ex s/half)
    Injury is a risk that you take every time you step on to the field; what you are implicitly saying is that big guys can't leverage all their physical ability to best effect. You are, in effect, dumbing down to cater to the smallest player.

    I didn't see head contact. I saw a drive through the upper chest area - legal- which because of the force flipped the ball carrier. A legal hit with an unfortunately bad outcome.
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  3. #43

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    I don't buy into any of the arguments about intent, or "unfortunate", or whether it was a "true" lift, etc. Nobody can reasonably deny that the actions of the tackler resulted in the tackled player being flipped over.

    I'll draw an analogy. Years ago, boots on bodies in rucks was considered normal and "part of the game". Then, 20-25ish years ago, the powers that be decided (rightly IMHO) that this was an unnecessary element of risk, and that standing on players on the ground would be penalised. A zero-tolerance approach was taken, on the premise that players were responsible for where they put their feet. There was a sizeable contingent (mainly of the armchair expert / retired player / the-older-I-get-the-better-I-was type) that bemoaned the death of "proper rucking", but miraculously, season by season, players got better at stepping over bodies on the floor, referees got better at dealing with players on the floor, and gratuitous stamping became largely a thing of the past.

    For some time now, we have been going through a similar transition with tackling. The powers that be have decided (rightly IMHO) that players landing with force on their head and neck is a bad thing, both for the player and for the game. So we have incidents like Umaga/Mealamu dumping O'Driscoll going totally unpunished in 2005, but just 6 years later Sam Warburton gets a RWC red card for a challenge half as dangerous. It's a drive to improve player safety, but just like the rucks in my analogy, there's a contingent (mainly of the armchair expert / retired player / the-older-I-get-the-better-I-was type) bemoaning the death of "proper tackling". And the way we will best embed the changes is by making tacklers responsible. There will always be the unavoidable - the awkward fall, the ankle twisted in the turf, etc. - but we can control the avoidable. And sure enough, eight years after the Warburton tackle, most rugby folk now understand that a tip tackle will be penalised.

    So to this specific tackle:
    - Was it dangerous? Yes - anything causing a ball carrier to land head first is (rightly IMHO) now considered dangerous. And let's be clear, while it may not have been intentional, the tackler (and nobody else) caused the ball carrier to land on his head.
    - Was it reckless? I would contend yes. At that speed, from the moment the tackler left his feet, he relinquished any physical means to exert control over the collision.
    - Could he have tackled differently? Absolutely. That rocket tackle was a choice, not an accident.
    - How do we eliminate reckless, dangerous tackles like this? The same way we removed "a good shoeing" and "a good old-fashioned dump tackle" - with a consistent front that says this type of uncontrolled collision is unacceptable, and if you choose to instigate one then your game is over. And sooner or later, players will choose not to tackle like this.
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

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  4. #44

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Pablo, I absolutely admire your compassion and desire for a safer game however you’re just plain wrong in this case. I don’t know the age group but looking at the guy who was tackled I’m thinking U15s. The kid whose tackled him is probably the same age, rubbish judgement and as has been mentioned before probably keen to show off his newly arrived physic. I’ve seen it loads with the kids I’ve coached, massively keen to clobber someone until they try it and end up on their arse. Here we are judging it like it was Manu taking out Hadley Parkes. Sometimes extraordinary things happen. If I’m reffing this I’m blowing for a break to get the tackled guy seen to and I’m in no rush to restart the game before I’ve spoken to both coaches. Essentially though a 14/15 year old kid has made a misjudgement.

  5. #45

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    Pablo, I absolutely admire your compassion and desire for a safer game however you’re just plain wrong in this case. I don’t know the age group but looking at the guy who was tackled I’m thinking U15s. The kid whose tackled him is probably the same age, rubbish judgement and as has been mentioned before probably keen to show off his newly arrived physic. I’ve seen it loads with the kids I’ve coached, massively keen to clobber someone until they try it and end up on their arse. Here we are judging it like it was Manu taking out Hadley Parkes. Sometimes extraordinary things happen. If I’m reffing this I’m blowing for a break to get the tackled guy seen to and I’m in no rush to restart the game before I’ve spoken to both coaches. Essentially though a 14/15 year old kid has made a misjudgement.
    Do you think ?

    In my judgement the 'tackler' spotted a not very alert ball carrier, much smaller than himself, and went out with the clear intention to smash him as late as he could get away with, and as hard as he could, short of a red card.
    Last edited by crossref; 27-03-19 at 22:03.

  6. #46

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    From the hollowing words of pablo, if Im to believe his line of thinking, the next time I see a broken bone or bad injury to the tackled player I guess I should instantly RC the tackler regardless of the circumstances. Clearly by association alone it was all his fault.

    Nah...on second thoughts I think I'll stick to applying the laws.

    There's empthy and sympathy with law application and I'm seeing quite a few that really would benefit their refereeing by looking up and understanding the difference.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  7. #47

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    I think your reasoning is very Laws based, without seeing the big picture

    Do you think that incidents like that are good thing, or a damaging thing for age grade rugby ?
    Last edited by crossref; 27-03-19 at 23:03.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    I’m genuinely intrigued as to how many of the commenters on this thread regularly ref, or better yet are involved in the development of age grade rugby (England or otherwise) because it seems quite a few are out of touch with the guidance I get and the goals we’re trying to achieve. No 1 is getting the kids to come back next week, not sure how saying ‘this is ok’ achieves that, it goes above and beyond the laws, and much broader empathy.

    legally ok != appropriate for a kids game

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think your reasoning is very Laws based, without seeing the big picture

    Do you think that incidents like that are good thing, or a damaging thing for age grade rugby ?
    ha ha ha...pot meet kettle! I'm going to save that phrase and show it to you whenever you get on your law soap box.

    yes - I think it can be damaging to age grade rugby - but my slant is to review the system and change the system, don't manipulate the current laws to bend with your emotional slant and your personal agenda.

    If you penalise and sit a kid out because he played within the laws that is just as bad if not worse as he's going to leave the game (out of frustration). Finding a PK or card to justify your agenda not the answer.

    As I've already said, I have a small 14yo son and worry about him playing at times, but I also have a union where I have the option to move him age groups more suitable to his size if I wish. But I recognise that also won't stop him getting hurt in a collision sport.
    I have refereed for over 10 years (to reasonable levels) and I have coached age grade rugby for a number of years for both of my sons teams (and they/re both #9's!) - so I am acutely aware of safety and enjoyment for kids and getting them wanting to come back. The reality is some kids soon realise that contact sport is not for them and they go and play tag.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    better video:https://www.facebook.com/Schoolofrug...7602668149431/

    I believe he broke a rib the player in White.
    Last edited by rugbyslave; 28-03-19 at 07:03.

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