Page 6 of 22 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 211

Thread: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

      
  1. #51

    Referees in England
    Pablo's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Buckinghamshire Referees Society
    Grade
    6
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    1,386
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    76

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    From the hollowing words of pablo, if Im to believe his line of thinking, the next time I see a broken bone or bad injury to the tackled player I guess I should instantly RC the tackler regardless of the circumstances. Clearly by association alone it was all his fault.
    This is a straw man, and not remotely close to what I said. Would you like to address my actual argument?

  2. #52

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,364
    Thanks (Received)
    161
    Likes (Received)
    1905

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post

    yes - I think it can be damaging to age grade rugby - but my slant is to review the system and change the system, don't manipulate the current laws to bend with your emotional slant and your personal agenda.

    If you penalise and sit a kid out because he played within the Laws
    My "personal agenda" being safety ?
    My "'personal agenda" being to attract and retain kids to rugby ?

    I don't think that tackle is legal. It's an excellent example of what 9.11 is in the Law Book for.
    Last edited by crossref; 28-03-19 at 07:03.

  3. #53
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    443

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    I’m genuinely intrigued as to how many of the commenters on this thread regularly ref, or better yet are involved in the development of age grade rugby (England or otherwise) because it seems quite a few are out of touch with the guidance I get and the goals we’re trying to achieve. No 1 is getting the kids to come back next week, not sure how saying ‘this is ok’ achieves that, it goes above and beyond the laws, and much broader empathy.

    legally ok != appropriate for a kids game
    I think I said earlier "CONTEXT" There are gmes where that tackle will be considered dangerous there are games where it would not be considered dangerous.

    AGE, Very hard ground and Experience levels are just three considerations.

    I read the majority of posters to be in that camp. We are discussing the incident is over all terms.

    FACTS:

    It was not a TIP tackle.

    Outcome in terms of injury does not "decide" any sanction.

    Would I have sanctioned the tackler in that particular game?

    I don't know as I do not have the full facts in my armchair to make that call.

  4. #54
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    KSRFUR
    Grade
    Level 10
    Join Date
    11 Apr 18
    Posts
    358
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    For me the number 1 consideration must be player safety (especially when reffing a youth game).

    That tackle was dangerous - and I certainly wouldn't want to see that happen in the game again - so I am going to sanction it, admonish the player and given the severity consider a card, and then find a basis in law for that decision to sell it.

    Whilst there is no grasping/lifting action - the height/angle/force of the tackle caused the players hips to lift above the shoulders and then the head impacts to the floor) this for me meets the definition of 9.18. Also I consider that this was dangerous so 9.11 and 9.13 equally apply.

    9.11 Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.


    9.13 A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously. Dangerous tackling includes, but is not limited to, tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders.


    9.18 A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.
    Last edited by mcroker; 28-03-19 at 09:03.

  5. #55
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    443

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    9.18 is wrong. He did not lift the player. If you took that to a DC it would, almost certainly be throw out. 9.11 and 9.13 would be in some contexts valid.

    See a number of high profile incidents, where the ruling has been "No lift because the actions of a second player affected the outcome" etc.

  6. #56

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,364
    Thanks (Received)
    161
    Likes (Received)
    1905

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    I think I said earlier "CONTEXT" There are gmes where that tackle will be considered dangerous there are games where it would not be considered dangerous.

    AGE, Very hard ground and Experience levels are just three considerations.

    I read the majority of posters to be in that camp. We are discussing the incident is over all terms.

    FACTS:

    It was not a TIP tackle.

    Outcome in terms of injury does not "decide" any sanction.

    Would I have sanctioned the tackler in that particular game?

    I don't know as I do not have the full facts in my armchair to make that call.
    Would you be OK for it to happen again ? Or again and again anagain ?

  7. #57
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    KSRFUR
    Grade
    Level 10
    Join Date
    11 Apr 18
    Posts
    358
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    9.18 is wrong. He did not lift the player. If you took that to a DC it would, almost certainly be throw out. 9.11 and 9.13 would be in some contexts valid.

    See a number of high profile incidents, where the ruling has been "No lift because the actions of a second player affected the outcome" etc.
    I suspect you are right, you almost certainly have more experience of DC than I do... although I note the word lift has all sorts of definitions in the OED. "Pick up and move to a different position.", "Raise to a higher position or level."

    I think the action is upwards, which is why the body responds as it does.

  8. #58
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    443

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by mcroker View Post
    I suspect you are right, you almost certainly have more experience of DC than I do... although I note the word lift has all sorts of definitions in the OED. "Pick up and move to a different position.", "Raise to a higher position or level."

    I think the action is upwards, which is why the body responds as it does.

    The action was parallel to the ground. which naturally (physics) causes the legs to swing upwards. That is not lifiting in the core sense. A lift requires and upward force. To move a body (using your definition) you pick the object up (lift) and them move it the lifit is the first part of the action.


    I think that, in trying to shoe horn this into "tip tackle" definitions. You are missing the point. In a game situation the question is "Was that dangerous?" a "binary" question. Work from there. After the game, when filing your card report, yo ucan orry about the Law reference.

  9. #59
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    KSRFUR
    Grade
    Level 10
    Join Date
    11 Apr 18
    Posts
    358
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    The action was parallel to the ground. which naturally (physics) causes the legs to swing upwards. That is not lifiting in the core sense. A lift requires and upward force. To move a body (using your definition) you pick the object up (lift) and them move it the lifit is the first part of the action.
    I'm not sure that's correct - I have done Ju-Jitsu for many years, where getting the opponent to do exactly that is encouraged rather than penalised. To get the opponent to flip up like that you have to lift then off their feet (simultaneous backwards, and upwards force). If you just hit them horizontally then they crumble in a heap rather than flipping - there has to be some upwards force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    I think that, in trying to shoe horn this into "tip tackle" definitions. You are missing the point. In a game situation the question is "Was that dangerous?" a "binary" question. Work from there. After the game, when filing your card report, yo ucan orry about the Law reference.


    Not at all - On the pitch I am penalising as dangerous, and selling the decision in the best way I can. I am not arguing that 9.18 is a better sell than 9.11 or 9.13, or TBH which would occur to me on the pitch in the heat of the moment (whilst dealing with bigger concerns such as do I need to call an ambulance and/or hearse). Writing up post match then I am fine with the guidance that 9.11 and 9.13 are better fits.

  10. #60

    Referees in Australia
    menace's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    ACTRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    20 Nov 09
    Posts
    3,576
    Thanks (Received)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    495
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    This is a straw man, and not remotely close to what I said. Would you like to address my actual argument?
    Yeah. ...don't have the energy.
    I realise we are going in circles. Time to get off this carousel.

    Ill let you and crossref use the subjective 9.11 to your hearts content.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •