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Thread: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

      
  1. #491

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I bet they will lose more sponsors if they keep it.
    And I'll bet they wouldn't if it was done properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Why would anyone outside the fanbase, with their emotional connection, want to be associated with medieval religious terrorism?
    Why does the name have to be associated with medieval terrorism?

    Let me answer that for you... IT DOESN'T. It already has another clear, universally well understood meaning.

    crusader

    noun: crusader; plural noun: crusaders; noun: Crusader

    2. a person who campaigns vigorously for political, social, or religious change; a campaigner.


    e.g.

    Crusader for Justice
    Crusaders for Peace

    Furthermore (and I'll bet you didn't know this - although I don't expect you will admit it) but those Holy Wars which we NOW call "The Crusades" were not contemporaneously called "the Crusades"... because the word had not even been invented yet!! "Crusade" comes from the French "croisee" - "the state of being marked with a cross". The word did not come into any western language until the 16th century and not into English language until the 18th Century. In short, the word Crusade was not even used to describe those Holy Wars until five hundred years after they happened.

    Lose the imagery and then rebrand the name to associate with the positive connotations of a crusader. Even a complete dickhead can understand this.
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  2. #492

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    More name calling !
    What is it with the mods on this site

    I understand your argument perfectly well, and I think it's a very poor one

    The secondary meaning of crusader .. fighter for a good cause .. is based on the shared assumption that the original crusaders were fighting a just battle for a good cause. Oops


    It's a shame if the club management let the sponsors make the call on the rights and wrongs of the name , and meekly fall in

    They should be able to make their own judgement based in their own values

    What are Canterbury's core values ?
    Last edited by crossref; 12-06-19 at 12:06.

  3. #493

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  4. #494

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    And I'll bet they wouldn't if it was done properly.



    Why does the name have to be associated with medieval terrorism?

    Let me answer that for you... IT DOESN'T. It already has another clear, universally well understood meaning.

    crusader

    noun: crusader; plural noun: crusaders; noun: Crusader

    2. a person who campaigns vigorously for political, social, or religious change; a campaigner.


    e.g.

    Crusader for Justice
    Crusaders for Peace

    Furthermore (and I'll bet you didn't know this - although I don't expect you will admit it) but those Holy Wars which we NOW call "The Crusades" were not contemporaneously called "the Crusades"... because the word had not even been invented yet!! "Crusade" comes from the French "croisee" - "the state of being marked with a cross". The word did not come into any western language until the 16th century and not into English language until the 18th Century. In short, the word Crusade was not even used to describe those Holy Wars until five hundred years after they happened.

    Lose the imagery and then rebrand the name to associate with the positive connotations of a crusader. Even a complete dickhead can understand this.
    You're being disingenuous Ian.
    Of course the current Crusaders are associated with the Crusades - that's what all the imagery is about. If they ahd been about any of the links that you posted, they would have reflected that on the imagery. They didn't.
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  5. #495

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Of course the current Crusaders are associated with the Crusades - that's what all the imagery is about. If they ahd been about any of the links that you posted, they would have reflected that on the imagery. They didn't.
    I think that is true of any group that claims to be crusading - images of the Good Guys riding into battle etc. I doubt if many of them actually have any religious fervour behind them - it is just an exciting image.
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  6. #496

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I think that is true of any group that claims to be crusading - images of the Good Guys riding into battle etc. I doubt if many of them actually have any r[eligious fervour behind them - it is just an exciting image.
    Any actual examples of groups that claim to be crusading , but have no religious fervour ?

    Screenshot_20190612-194302.jpg
    Last edited by crossref; 12-06-19 at 19:06.

  7. #497

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Any actual examples of groups that claim to be crusading , but have no religious fervour ?
    Nothing worth remembering (which says a lot).
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #498

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    You're being disingenuous Ian.
    Of course the current Crusaders are associated with the Crusades - that's what all the imagery is about. If they ahd been about any of the links that you posted, they would have reflected that on the imagery. They didn't.
    Which is why I am in favour of ditching the imagery, keeping the name and associating it with something.

    How hard can it be?
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  9. #499

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    Arrow Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    I don't think it merits 48 pages on a rugby rules discussion forum, and I don't see any minds being changed.
    Actually, my opening post was about a very worthwhile subject. Only some folks prefer to rabbit on about offtopic stuff rather than simply open a discussion thread about say «*Israel Folau’s audacity*»
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  10. #500

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Which is why I am in favour of ditching the imagery, keeping the name and associating it with something.

    How hard can it be?
    It will be very hard indeed, because the name Crusaders will always be associated with, well, the Crusaders.

    And the secondary meanings of the word Crusaders also all derive from, well, the Crusaders

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