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Thread: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

      
  1. #531

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Some press reports are suggesting that this will turn on whether he quoted from the bible (ok) or added his own words / interpretation (not Ok)
    That would be entertaining , as we would then need theologians as expert witnesses to judge whether IF post was a plausible translation of the original texts (in Greek?)
    Well he is going to be in some trouble, because there is nothing whatsoever in the bible which matches what he posted, and not even anything saying that homosexuals, liars and drunks are destined for hell.

    There are some passages that are often quoted to support this idea. For example, Genesis 19:1–29, the chapter about the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah is often referred as an indication of God's wrath with reference to gay men.. , and while some bible scholars think the use of the word "know" supports their claim it was all about homosexuality, "know" was also used in the sense of greeting and hospitality. This interpretation is supported when the reason for the destruction of Sodom is actually revealed in later chapters, for example..

    Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

    The "sin" of Sodom and Gomorrah was the city’s unwillingness, due to their pride and haughtiness, to share their abundance with those who were poor and marginalized... Remember that "pride" is one of teh seen deadly sins

    Amos 4:1 "Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink."

    Amos 4:11 "I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD."

    Amos 4 predicted the destruction of Israel for following Sodom’s example of “oppressing the needy and crushing the poor.”

    Whenever the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is mentioned, homosexuality is never listed as the cause of the destruction.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  2. #532

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Spare me from theologians!

  3. #533

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Ian, in your scenario the misdemeanor relates to the employment relationship. IF's (arguably) doesn't. Watch this space.
    I would argue that it does. Everything in an employment contract is part of the relationship with the employer.

    Lets say I'm an Australian rugby player, and I have a contract with Rugby Australia. Because of the fact that the ARU is part of World Rugby, it is subject to WR Regulations. Also, because I am a rugby player I am also subject to WR Regulations, even if I am not a contracted professional, if I am just an amateur club player, I am subject to WR Regulations by the very fact that I am registered with a club. Even you, as a member of the VRRA are subject to those regulations.

    One of those Regulations is WR Regulation 20

    REGULATION 20. MISCONDUCT AND CODE OF CONDUCT

    20.3 For the purposes of these Regulations Relating to the Game, “Misconduct” shall mean any conduct, behaviour, statements and/or practices on or off the playing enclosure during or in connection with a Match or otherwise, that is unsporting and/or cheating and/or insulting and/or unruly and/or ill-disciplined and/or that brings or has the potential to bring the Game and/or any of its constituent bodies, World Rugby and/or its appointed personnel or commercial partners and/or Match Officials and/or judicial personnel into disrepute.

    20.4 While it is not possible to provide a definitive and exhaustive list of the types of conduct, behaviour, statements or practices that may amount to Misconduct under these Regulations, by way of illustration, each of the following types of conduct, behaviour, statements or practices however or wheresoever undertaken are examples of and constitute Misconduct:

    (c) acts or statements that are, or conduct that is, discriminatory by reason of religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, colour or national or ethnic origin;



    This is clear, it is unequivocal and there is zero wiggle room for any personal or religious beliefs.

    Now, unbeknownst to Rugby Australia, I am a racist and a rampant white supremacist. If were to make a social media post in which I said that "all the ****ing Abos should piss off back to the outback", that would be a statement that was discriminatory by reason of race, colour and ethnic origin.​ I would (quite rightly) be hauled up in front of a disciplinary committee. If I was lucky enough not be be fired on the spot, I would certainly be warned in no uncertain terms that I was to never make such a statement again. If I did it again I would be gone-burger on the spot. No amount of bleating about my right to free speech or my right to express by beliefs will help me. I would be gone, and rightly so.

    Now, I do not see any difference in this between Israel Folau, and me.


    He has a right to be a Christian, and I have a right to be a racist.
    He has a right to believe in God, and I have a right to believe in White Supremacism
    He has a right to believe that homosexuals are destined for Hell, and I have a right to believe that Brown people should be repatriated

    However, both of us are contractually obligated, and subject to a Code of Conduct Regulation that obligates us to keep those opinions to ourselves.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  4. #534

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Spare me from theologians!
    Well, I'm not a theologian, I am an atheist, and a follower of the teachings of Sun Tzu, particularly The Art Of War, Chapter 3:18
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  5. #535

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    God spare me from atheist theologians

  6. #536

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    God spare me from atheist theologians
    I saw what you did there!
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Well he is going to be in some trouble, because there is nothing whatsoever in the bible which matches what he posted, and not even anything saying that homosexuals, liars and drunks are destined for hell.
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 seems to cover it, given that "inheriting the kingdom of God" and "going to hell" are seen as the binary options available in most protestant theology.

  8. #538

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Well, I'm not a theologian, I am an atheist, and a follower of the teachings of Sun Tzu, particularly The Art Of War, Chapter 3:18
    Depends who you see as being your enemy. Folau is being selective in his bible quoting
    Sun Tzu's The Art of War, Illustrated (Chapter 3: Attack By Stratagem)
    3.18 Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat

    Li Ch`uan cites the case of Fu Chien, prince of Ch`in, who in 383 A.D. marched with a vast army against the Chin Emperor. When warned not to despise an enemy who could command the services of such men as Hsieh An and Huan Ch`ung, he boastfully replied: "I have the population of eight provinces at my back, infantry and horsemen to the number of one million; why, they could dam up the Yangtsze River itself by merely throwing their whips into the stream. What danger have I to fear?" Nevertheless, his forces were soon after disastrously routed at the Fei River, and he was obliged to beat a hasty retreat.
    Sun Tzu himself viewed the ideal general as an enlightened Taoist master. Taoism is both a philosophy and a religion.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 16-06-19 at 17:06.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  9. #539

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Heres a detailed discussion of how Israel Folau's case might be determined in English Law , were this a case in England
    .
    http://rugbyandthelaw.com/2019/06/10...-israel-folau/

  10. #540

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    And meanwhile, Folau is going completely mad.
    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/06/1...nder-children/

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