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Thread: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

      
  1. #761

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Right to free speech being tested at a whole new level in the US.

    A woman who encouraged her suicidal boyfriend in a barrage of text messages to take his own life should have her involuntary manslaughter conviction thrown out because it "violated her right to free speech".
    In urging the US Supreme Court to hear her appeal, Michelle Carter's lawyers called her conviction in Conrad Roy III's death "unprecedented" and said her case raises crucial questions about whether "words alone" are enough to hold someone responsible for another person's suicide.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  2. #762

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Oh, and the Australian Government might want to look at their own Public Service Guidelines before they go bringing in legislation that allows employees the right to say what they like, when they like about their employer's policies.

    https://www.apsc.gov.au/making-publi...uide-employees

    The Code of Conduct is set out in section 13 of the Public Service Act 1999 (the Act). The Code’s behavioural standards are directed at securing public confidence in the integrity of the APS. The Code creates binding obligations on all APS employees about how they conduct themselves at work and, to some extent, in their private lives.
    For example, section 13(11) requires APS employees to behave at all times in a way that upholds:


    1. the APS Values and Employment Principles; and
    2. the integrity and good reputation of the employee’s agency and the APS.



    It is quite clear that criticising the the government, a department, a minister, or the Prime Minister on social media will almost always be considered a breach of the Public Service Code of Conduct, and could lead to disciplinary action, up to and including termination.

    I see no reason whatsoever why private employers should not be entitled to expect the same behaviour from their employees.
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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Yeah, he's right - that is, domestic violence is not exclusively "male partner beats up female partner". There is plenty of domestic violence where the male is the victim but its rarely reported, mostly because of male pride. Most men would not want to admit to their chums that they are getting beat up by a woman.

    Anyone who denies that men can be victims of domestic violence is living in Loopy Lou land.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8309921.html
    Yes he is right to an extent. I work as a Family Lawyer and I can testify to the fact that domestic violence goes both ways.

    However I need to add that physical domestic violence tends to be predominantly male on female; and the worst cases are even more predominantly male on female.

    Importantly the law does not define domestic violence in such narrow terms as physical abuse. Stalking, harassment, smearing publicly, emotional harm, using children as weapons and exposing children to alienating and insidious comments about the other all constitute domestic violence. These are an equal opportunity activity for both sexes. Those type of behaviours can be more destructive and have longer ramifications for parents and children than physical abuse can.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    Yes he is right to an extent. I work as a Family Lawyer and I can testify to the fact that domestic violence goes both ways.

    However I need to add that physical domestic violence tends to be predominantly male on female; and the worst cases are even more predominantly male on female.

    Importantly the law does not define domestic violence in such narrow terms as physical abuse. Stalking, harassment, smearing publicly, emotional harm, using children as weapons and exposing children to alienating and insidious comments about the other all constitute domestic violence. These are an equal opportunity activity for both sexes. Those type of behaviours can be more destructive and have longer ramifications for parents and children than physical abuse can.

    That may apply to reported cases, but this University of Otago study suggests that the split might be more even..

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-heral...enging-picture
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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    What does Rugby New Zealand's CoC have to say about it ?

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    What does Rugby New Zealand's CoC have to say about it ?
    http://www.nzrpa.co.nz/pdf/Appendix-2-handouts.pdf


    Note the highlighted parts below

    Players must adhere to:

    • New Zealand Rugby’s rules, regulations, and protocols (e.g. Anti-Corruption and Betting Regulations, the Respect and Inclusion Protocol and the Team Function Protocol).
    • World Rugby Regulations
    • Collective Employment Agreement (which also covers individual playing contract terms and conditions)
    • New Zealand law (e.g. the Crimes Act)



    If players breach the expected standards, then a misconduct process may arise. You will always have an opportunity to explain your actions.

    A misconduct allegation could range from ordinary (less serious) misconduct to serious misconduct

    Examples – Serious Misconduct:

    • Committing a doping offence
    • Gambling on the outcome of any game
    • Committing a criminal offence
    • Actions, conduct, comments or behaviour that offends or harms others and/or the game
    • Repeated misconduct

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  7. #767

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    If true, then I agree, but if you are talking about Reece, well he didn't get a pass.

    In October 2018, he was discharged without conviction by Judge Denise Clark (Hamilton District Court). She said

    "a conviction would have ended the Fijian-born player's Irish contract and that would have been out of all proportion to the gravity of the offending".

    "I have considered your circumstances and it's certainly not the case that because you are good at playing rugby that you get the opportunity to be discharged without conviction."


    Judge Clark accepted that the victim had forgiven Reece, that the couple were undergoing counselling, Reece had admitted a problem with alcohol and had been sober for three months. Reece expressed remorse and apologised at a restorative justice meeting, and he was supported in court by a young woman and other associates.

    Judge Clark took into account his early guilty plea, the fact it was his first time before the courts. He was ordered to pay his victim $750 within 28 days for emotional harm reparation.

    It was after all this, after his Irish contract (to play for Connaught) fell through, that Crusader's coach Scott Robertson offered Reece a lifeline, first to play in the pre-season, and later to play the full season after another player was injured. Anyone who knows anything about NZ Rugby, especially the Crusaders, will know that such a lifeline offered to a player in Reece's position, comes with conditions as to their conduct on and off the field.

    Now while I am all for punishment for crimes, I am not in favour of punishing and punishing and punishing endlessly. If we simply punish Reece in this way he ends up consigned to the scrap heap, and we've fixed nothing. He is providing for a family so it punishes them too; if he is providing for his partner, we end up punishing the victim. The whole focus in dealing with domestic violence in NZ isn't on punishment, its on prevention; its on having friends and family getting offenders to stop by getting them to get help..

    This is one of a series of anti-domestic violence TV ads currently running in New Zealand.



    This country has the shameful record of having the highest rate of family violence in the developed world, but it has been shown time and again that this sort of approach is far more effective than punishing and threatening punishment and throwing people in a dumpster.
    Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  8. #768

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.
    Yes, finally common ground with Simon Smith.

    I've seen it described as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    All professional sportsmen, especially the high profile ones, represent their sport at all times, so they are in effect "at work" 24/7/365. That is part of the price you pay for having a million dollar contract to kick and throw around a ball. If you don't like those conditions, you need to go find another profession.
    One strike, you're out.

  9. #769

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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Nah. This is the slope that the NFL has gone down, finding any excuse to let the player play.
    Well, the judge (not NZR) made it clear that this is not the case. Judges don't tend to lie when they hand down their rulings.

    Now, I can fully understand that this approach might not work in gun-totin', racist 'merica, especially in peckerwood country, but is has been shown to work very well in this country

    Would you prevent a person in any other form of employment from ever working again because of a single legal transgression when they were young?
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 1 Week Ago at 20:07.
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    Default Re: Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post

    Would you prevent a person in any other form of employment from ever working again because of a single legal transgression when they were young?
    Am I employing him to be a role model ?

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