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Thread: Lifting an opponent in open play

      
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    Default Lifting an opponent in open play

    Still a very green ref here, and this was an interesting quandary. U15 game and red ball carrier meets yellow defender around yellow's 22. Yellow goes to tackle - all legit, waist height, arms wrapped around red BC and encompasses the BC's arms.

    However, rather than bring the BC to ground, yellow picks up the BC - and the ball the BC is still holding - and starts to shuffle toward touch. Cue apoplectic howls from the 14 red lawyers along the lines of 'ref, he's in the air' - but I play on.

    As far as I'm concerned I can't recall anything that says this is against a law. All I'm looking for is a) if yellow defender stumbles or brings the BC down he has to do so carefully and it's a tackle, or b) a maul begins (at which point I'm stopping for safety and restarting with a red scrum as they're attacking), or c) yellow shuffles into touch like some geriatric Sisyphus (and yellow get a line-out).

    In the end, another yellow comes up and strips the ball and this all becomes moot.

    But what is the position on lifting an opposition player in open play?

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    IMO, its legit, but I would be careful about allowing it in U15

    In an adult match, as long as he brings the player down safely, I don't care if that happens in touch, so longs as the lifting happened near the touchline and not in the middle of the field (I'll know it when I see it).

    In age grade, I would blow the whistle immediately on safety grounds, and then award a scrum i.a.w Law 19.1 (last item in table) so the team throwing in would be the last team moving forward or, if neither team was moving forward, the attacking team.
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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Tactic is legal. But it could become dangerous as Ian points out. So be prepared to manage the situation.

    Practically this is likely to happen:

    1: near the touch line. (to gain the line out).
    2: Anywhere to get a maul and a T/O.
    Watch for "flashpoints in either.

    Re the maul you describe. You would be wrong to give red the scrum. The rule is the team tking the ball in do not get the turnover (expect it certain siituations - which this is not) Red took the ball int othe maul so green get the ball.

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    As Marc & Ian have said, the tactic employed here is totally legal. Just ensure that the defender brings the ball carrier back to ground under control. What can often happen is the ball carrier is dropped when not in the vertical plane and injuries can happen.

    To help with the "....14 Red Lawyers..." on the touch line, a call of "Legal wrap" may help them understand.
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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Re the maul you describe. You would be wrong to give red the scrum. The rule is the team tking the ball in do not get the turnover (expect it certain siituations - which this is not) Red took the ball int othe maul so green get the ball.
    that occurred to me too but the OP isn't describing a maul that has ended unsuccessfully. He has blown it up early for safety reasons.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    I agree with the safety-first approach in the answers here ..but I find it hard to reconcile with the general response of 'play on' on this thread
    http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread....ighlight=Viral

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    that occurred to me too but the OP isn't describing a maul that has ended unsuccessfully. He has blown it up early for safety reasons.
    If in the same scenario the ball was "playable", I take it you would instruct the team to "use it"? Here they can't so it has become "unsuccessful" and dangerous to continue. I would, therfore, stick with my call of turnover. Otherwise we could get a spate of ball carriers lifting their feet off the ground in mauls to get a safety call.

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Thanks for the responses and views, and also Beckett50 for the hint to use a [QUOTE=beckett50;358358]call of "Legal wrap"[/QUOTE] to settle the horses.

    Glad I'm not wrong on the legitimacy of the lift but I think it'll be a while before I start offering my ref services to the local refs group for adult games. Youth games seem to be my limit at the mo'.
    Last edited by Volun-selected; 21-04-19 at 22:04.

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Quote Originally Posted by Volun-selected View Post
    Thanks for the responses and views, [FONT=Verdana]and also Beckett50 for the hint to to settle the horses.

    Glad I'm not wrong on the legitimacy of the lift but I think it'll be a while before I start offering my ref services to the local refs group for adult games. Youth games seem to be my limit at the mo'.
    You may be surprised.. in many ways adult games are easier then youth ones .. less emotion on field and much less touchline input

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    Default Re: Lifting an opponent in open play

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    You may be surprised.. in many ways adult games are easier then youth ones .. less emotion on field and much less touchline input
    This is where having poor hearing helps, the sideline ‘support’ just becomes background noise .

    I agree with the point though, you may well find adult games easier as they (mostly) have a better handle on all that testosterone. Tend to be more chatty and ‘helpful’ to you as well!

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