Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

      
  1. #1
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    284

    Default Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...khRWh33xLorMRQ


    Interesting but I find he explanation of the TMO error laughable. The comment about the scrum put in misses the point. I suggest he talks to some forwards.

  2. #2

    Referees in England
    beckett50's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    East Midlands
    Grade
    Level 6
    Join Date
    31 Jan 04
    Posts
    2,341
    Thanks (Received)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    153

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    I agree that the TMO explanation was rather 'wooly'. I was more concerned with his calls for impartial match officials at every game, which I think calls into question the integrity of the current panel of officials.

    As for the one Law that he'd change?
    --------------------

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=691560798


    "Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf" Native American Proverb

    Vanillaisforicecream

  3. #3

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    4,296
    Thanks (Received)
    36
    Likes (Received)
    214

    Arrow Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    I agree that the TMO explanation was rather 'wooly'. I was more concerned with his calls for impartial match officials at every game, which I think calls into question the integrity of the current panel of officials
    Yeah, but it was a leading question from the Wales online blogger.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoL
    Englishman Greg Garner is the man in charge of the officials, in his role as the PRO14’s Elite Referee Manager.
    Well Mr. Garner this is just shoddy journalism;

    Quote Originally Posted by WoL
    The TMO on that occasion was Irish. Would you accept if you were to have neutral referees and TMOs for every game, the narrative would be purely about competency when mistakes are made and not impartiality?
    A: I totally agree with you.
    .. before suggesting (making an accusation ?) that of course an Irishman couldn’t possibly remain impartial.
    Try to understand the Munster philosophy «*Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of God.*» Ireland is provincial, so unlikely that a Munster-born, Leinster-branch ref would be biased in favour of a Connacht team.

    Connacht v Cardiff Blues @ The Sportsground 10 of April 2009
    Referee: Mike Adamson (Scotland) Assistant referees: George Clancy (Ireland), Fin Brown (Scotland) TMO: Ken Henley-Willis (Ireland)

    When Connacht played away to Cardiff the TMO was Welsh, don’t remember Wales online complaining back in January about that.
    So presumably impartiality in the eyes of Wales on line, is based on Nationality. Welsh officials being about reproach.
    Referee: Mike Adamson
    AR1: Adam Jones
    AR2: Lloyd Linton
    TMO: Ian Davies
    Match appointment details

    Not sure what he things about straight put-ins, perhaps he thinks favouring the attacking side will make for better TV rugby.
    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    As for the one Law that he'd change?
    I would like to see a law that says at the scrum the defending No 9 has to go and stand behind his No 8’s feet.
    Let’s top all the harassing of the attacking No 9, let him pass the ball and then we get the ball in play.
    That would be my change.
    I wonder if that really allows for a fairer competition for the ball?
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 27-04-19 at 13:04.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  4. #4
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    284

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    The issue was that the TMO call in the game referred to, was not just wrong (as admitted by Greg) but it was clearly wrong It was not even a close call. So that inevitable leads to people questioning the integrity of the sysyem of appointment. I am sure that there have been cases where Irish fans have not been happy with a home TMO's calls. The qestion was hardly leading. There were many answers ,apart from the correct one he could have given. I am sure Greg was exoecting it. I'm not sure why his answer was so porr considerign that.

    Note there is also critisim for the call by a Welsh referee in the article.

    Simon T is not making accusations but, correctly, stating that when glaring errors are made by an official and it is know that the official comes from the same country as the team benefiting from the error. It is only human nature for the question of bias to raise its head. Clearly if the officials are neutral then the question becomes one of competence rather than bias. Greg deals with the point well. THe point you omit from your "munster hates there rest" is thet the Irish officals and the provinces have, in effect, the same paymaster. So it is not quite as simple as you smokescreen it.
    The "blogger" is actually a journalist of many years standing. He asked for fans to put questions forward for him to take to Greg.


    Back to the article I think fair play to Greg for agreeing the the intervies and for having a desire to sort some of the leagues shortcommings out. His ideas about the law change belongs in the same place as, sadly much of his scrum understanding, the bin.

  5. #5

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,408
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1682

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    I think everyone can see that having third - country officials would go optimal , if only to avoid having these tedious conversations. I think GG provided some good insight into why this is harder to achieve in practice, than we might think

  6. #6

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    4,296
    Thanks (Received)
    36
    Likes (Received)
    214

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    The underlying problem is the Pro14 is strapped for cash and the home country officials is a financial necessity, rather than any kind of suitable arrangement. The Welsh regions being worse hit than the Irish provinces, in my opinion.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  7. #7

    Referees in Ireland
    Shelflife's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Connacht
    Grade
    LEVEL 3 IRFU
    Join Date
    22 Sep 12
    Posts
    558
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think everyone can see that having third - country officials would go optimal , if only to avoid having these tedious conversations. I think GG provided some good insight into why this is harder to achieve in practice, than we might think
    If you can have impartial officials for every game it would be great ! but then you end up down the path of officials being promoted simply because of their nationality.

    You could have 5 excellent refs from Wales but only need 3 so 2 refs are dropped, and then you promoted 2 substandard Irish refs in their place in order to have impartiality.

    The 2 good Welsh refs then clear off to the Premiership or down under and the standard of the Pro 14 refs declines.

    Personally I dont buy the biased ref argument, If anything Id say an official would sway against his countries team in order to avoid any semblance of bias which I suppose is a bias in itself ironically.

    Its a tricky situation, does it arise in the Premiership with refs from certain regions having their integrity called into question ?
    Courage is knowing what lies on the other side and still opening the door !

  8. #8

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,408
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1682

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelflife View Post
    If you can have impartial officials for every game it would be great ! but then you end up down the path of officials being promoted simply because of their nationality.
    I think we DO have impartial officials.

    but for the sake of appearance it would be good to have 3rd country officials

  9. #9
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Prefer not to say
    Grade
    Retired
    Join Date
    10 Dec 15
    Posts
    1,758
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    396

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    To be honest I think overall standards are the problem and pointing to nationalities, and trying to get 'neutral' refs is a distraction that won't help the problem - and as Shelflife says, could even exacerbate it (mentioning no names, some referees aren't up to it and I've seen unforgivable errors in pro 14 games).

    Raise the standards and the 'neutral' perception problem goes away. But that's much harder to do.

    But I would have liked to have heard him say something like "Well all our referees are neutral" and to tell the complainers where to go.

  10. #10

    Referees in Ireland
    Shelflife's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Connacht
    Grade
    LEVEL 3 IRFU
    Join Date
    22 Sep 12
    Posts
    558
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default Re: Pro 14 Ref chief speaks to Wales on line

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think we DO have impartial officials.

    but for the sake of appearance it would be good to have 3rd country officials
    Correct I meant to say 3rd country .
    Courage is knowing what lies on the other side and still opening the door !

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •