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Thread: Shirt Pulling

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    As ever I appear to be in a minority (there's reason I've not moved up the pyramid recently!) but I don't see how this can be legal. Itoje is not part of the ruck as he is not bound to anyone, yet appears to be able to push and pull legal ruck participants any which way he pleases. Shouldn't he be penalised for either playing the man without the ball, collapsing a ruck, not being bound in a ruck or some other similar offence?

  2. #22
    Rugby Club Member Treadmore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    As ever I appear to be in a minority (there's reason I've not moved up the pyramid recently!) but I don't see how this can be legal. Itoje is not part of the ruck as he is not bound to anyone, yet appears to be able to push and pull legal ruck participants any which way he pleases. Shouldn't he be penalised for either playing the man without the ball, collapsing a ruck, not being bound in a ruck or some other similar offence?
    If you think there is a ruck then how was it formed?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    As an experienced coach but a novice ref, im amazed this is just no viewed as a clear penalty. If you could just pull people off their feet collapsing the ruck and you remain standing and the ruck is over, id coach it, perhaps i should be? With the roll although some may see it as a grey area both players are off their feet, it is nearly always used to remove the jackalling player, combating the turnover rather than the support. The actions are clear therefore so should be the sanction, the truble with rugby is ambiguity when there should be clarity. If this became mainstream then it would hardly add to the game.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmore View Post
    If you think there is a ruck then how was it formed?
    OK, so there's not a ruck, but why would we allow a defending player to pull people who are not in possession of the ball off their feet, either over a tackle area or even in open play?

    Same question if we say there is a ruck, why should we allow a defending player to pull people off their feet using their shirt?

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    OK, so there's not a ruck, but why would we allow a defending player to pull people who are not in possession of the ball off their feet, either over a tackle area or even in open play?

    Same question if we say there is a ruck, why should we allow a defending player to pull people off their feet using their shirt?
    Because, if we're all being honest, ruck laws aren't applied as ruck laws.We've gradually allowed more and more...stuff to happen if it results, or could result, in the ball being clear. What we have outlined here, and gator rolls, and the sealing...we didn't allow it years ago. And now continuity and an expectation of 90% retention rate at the breakdown have killed off the idea of meaningful competition at every breakdown
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  6. #26

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    [QUOTE=ChrisR;359039]
    If he's grabbing a player not yet bound is he a. 'playing a man without the ball' or b. binding him into the ruck? I'll go with a.
    QUOTE]

    15.7 Allows players joining a ruck to bind on to an opponent.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    I think I would have PK against MI for that - pulling a shirt over the head of an opponent is not really what the game should be about! Also don't like seeing players pulled forward off their feet, suggests either an incorrect action in a ruck or maul or an over the shoulder tackle.

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Because, if we're all being honest, ruck laws aren't applied as ruck laws.We've gradually allowed more and more...stuff to happen if it results, or could result, in the ball being clear. What we have outlined here, and gator rolls, and the sealing...we didn't allow it years ago. And now continuity and an expectation of 90% retention rate at the breakdown have killed off the idea of meaningful competition at every breakdown
    Whilst I agree ruck laws are not always applied, surely there has to be a limit, and pulling players by the shirt away from the tackle area must be beyond that limit?

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Ruck laws and glaciers seem to be experiencing similar problems, steady erosion, lots of discussion but no one actually doing anything about it. The evolution of tactics and methods of play is to be encouraged, it keeps the game relevant, but it must take place within the boundaries of the law or the laws amended to reflect current practice. If those laws are routinely ignored for the purposes of making televised rugby a more attractive product then that will have consequences.

    Explaining to a 15 year old on a Sunday that although they saw Mario Itoje do something the day before they are not permitted to because it contravenes the laws is no basis to grow the game.

  10. #30

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    Arrow Re: Shirt Pulling

    Well, his options as an «*other player*» at the tackle seem fairly limited. He can contest possession of the ball, and has the following responsibilities:
    14.8
    Other players must:

    Remain on their feet and release the ball and the ball-carrier immediately.

    Remain on their feet when they play the ball.

    Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball.

    Not play the ball or attempt to tackle an opponent while on the ground near the tackle.
    Sanction: Penalty.
    He wasn’t contesting possession, was he? Grabbing an opponent and bringing them to ground, is playing a player without the ball and clearly not an attempt to bind on a opponent to form a ruck. The fact his rights at the tackle are fewer than his constraints, suggests to me it was an infringement. Professional players are exploiting the fact the LotG are poorly written, not sure we can learn much from TV rugby.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 3 Weeks Ago at 19:05.
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