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Thread: Shirt Pulling

      
  1. #31
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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Well, his options as an «*other player*» at the tackle seem fairly limited. He can contest possession of the ball, and has the following responsibilities:
    14.8
    Other players must:

    Remain on their feet and release the ball and the ball-carrier immediately.

    Remain on their feet when they play the ball.

    Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball.

    Not play the ball or attempt to tackle an opponent while on the ground near the tackle.
    Sanction: Penalty.
    He wasn’t contesting possession, was he? Grabbing an opponent and bringing them to ground, is playing a player without the ball and clearly not an attempt to bind on a opponent to form a ruck. The fact his rights at the tackle are fewer than his constraints, suggests to me it was an infringement. Professional players are exploiting the fact the LotG are poorly written, not sure we can learn much from TV rugby.
    Surely if it is not a ruck, the players he is pulling are all guilty of obstruction (or at least accidental offside). Nothing else in law permits them to be in front of the player who last played the ball, and interfering with play.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    I am not commenting on who infringed first. Just remarking that TV rugby is a shambles, because in the search for a more «*spectacular*» game, we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Allowing players to infringe is material, because if we tolerate these offside *pillars the opposition then won’t bother competing at that (soon to be)tackle or ruck. Since the game of rugby is based on competing for the ball, nullifying that aspect at the breakdown causes the whole thing to fall flat on its face.

    *Correct me if I am wrong but TV rugby does tolerate these pillars.
    Long debated in the RRF archives ... not sure it merits any further debate.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 25-05-19 at 07:05.
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  3. #33

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    This is why I asked the original question , distinguishing the two games

    In TV rugby I am content that the correct decision is Play On
    In grass roots rugby I am not so sure

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    I feel in the grassroots game such unsportsmanlike behaviour tends to get sorted out without the use of the whistle. A few breakdowns later and Red6 will have magically ceased to pull opponents shirts. That or several more breakdowns later he will either be strechered off with broken ribs or get involved in an exchange of punches with the enforcer on the Blue team. Jersey pulling is asking for trouble and should be managed before it causes all sorts of niggle and red mist. Shame WR doesn’t see things this way, but hey our opinion isn’t going to influence theirs.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    I feel in the grassroots game such unsportsmanlike behaviour tends to get sorted out without the use of the whistle. A few breakdowns later and Red6 will have magically ceased to pull opponents shirts. That or several more breakdowns later he will either be strechered off with broken ribs or get involved in an exchange of punches with the enforcer on the Blue team. Jersey pulling is asking for trouble and should be managed before it causes all sorts of niggle and red mist. Shame WR doesn’t see things this way, but hey our opinion isn’t going to influence theirs.
    What will sort out behaviour such as Blue 12 going straight off feet and then interfering with Red 6 from the floor?

    By ignoring the first offences you're missing the point about the TV rugby shambles - it's not the easily-visible-odd-looking-but-not-even unsporting-let-alone-illegal shirt-pulling that is the problem.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Shirt Pulling

    What will sort players going off their feet at the breakdown, you ask. Match referees enforcing the Laws as they are written. Player must not intentionally go to ground, if not tackled. Look at any professional training session, they are coaching players to go to ground to maintain possession. Unions could stop paying coaches who encourage cheating as the best way to win at all costs.

    9.27
    A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship.
    So for you it’s not foul play? Law reference allowing this?

    9.15
    Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push, charge or obstruct an opponent not in possession of the ball.
    He’s not in a ruck, so for me he is not entitled to interfere with other players. I suspect the Law makers didn’t write an exhaustive list of prohibited actions, because they felt common sense was still common in Rugby Union. He is entitled to compete for the ball, but appears uninterested in doing so. If he likes shirt pulling so much why doesn’t he go play soccer?
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 25-05-19 at 11:05.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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