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Thread: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

      
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    Default Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    With the rule change that happened a couple years ago, my understanding was that a person being there forms a ruck.
    The way I think about it jackal is a fair game. But what happens if another player from attacking player challenges? Wouldn't that define forming a ruck? And therefore the jackaler would have to release the ball?
    I've seen many cases where defender is awarded a penalty for attacker not releasing the ball. Eventhough jackaler clearly held on to the ball even after ruck was formed.

    Could you guys clarify this for me??

    Thank you!

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    If no-one else is over the ball, you can place your hands on it and take it. If this happens, you can keep your hands on it even if someone tries to push you off the ball.

    Once opposing players have made contact over the ball a ruck is formed, and it's illegal to then try and grab the ball.

    Often if you see someone with hands on the ball long enough that a ruck is formed, it's because the tackler isn't releasing.

    Incidentally, one player over the ball is not a ruck, it's a tackle with offside lines. Subtle but sometimes important difference.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    for clarification... when the jackler gets her hands on the ball and THEN contact is made - does she have to have lifted the ball at that juncture to be permitted to keep hands on?

    Merely for total clarity amongst us all here.

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 14-05-19 at 16:05.

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    15.11: Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

    Nothing about having to lift it. If the ball is lifted, you could call the ruck over, no?

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    15.11:

    Nothing about having to lift it. If the ball is lifted, you could call the ruck over, no?
    I certainly wouldn't be calling a ruck over merely because it ( ball) has been 'lifted'. Lifted and clear and even actively being played might be a better standard for me.

    Edit..(ball)

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    15.11: Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.
    Hang about. My understanding is that if the ball is still on the floor and the Jackler has his hands on it, even the Jackler has to take his hands off once a ruck has formed. Ie the Jackler can grab and lift the ball until the ruck is formed, but once it's formed (physical contact, ball on the floor, 2 opposing players both on their feet over the ball) then it's too late and he has to let it go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    I certainly wouldn't be calling a ruck over merely because [the ball] has been 'lifted'. Lifted and clear and even actively being played might be a better standard for me.
    Are we looking at a ruck or a maul?

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Hang about. My understanding is that if the ball is still on the floor and the Jackler has his hands on it, even the Jackler has to take his hands off once a ruck has formed. Ie the Jackler can grab and lift the ball until the ruck is formed, but once it's formed (physical contact, ball on the floor, 2 opposing players both on their feet over the ball) then it's too late and he has to let it go.
    Not my understanding, mine is literally as the law quote above, you get there first you can keep, your hands on.

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Not my understanding, mine is literally as the law quote above, you get there first you can keep, your hands on.
    Ditto.

    With the lifting part, the ball's not on the ground so it's not a ruck, but for the purposes of clarity it can breathe. Otherwise; jackler lifts the ball, ruck is formed, opponent rips it from his hands - do you blow up for hands in the ruck?

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Watch some 7s. It's all about getting there first. If the defender (BC's opponent) gets his hands on the ball before engaged by the BC's support he'll drag it into the tackled player's body and earn a PK for the tackled player not releasing (even if the tackle player isn't holding the ball.

    The only option at that point is for the BC's support to counter-ruck and drive the jackler off. Then you'll see the jackler lifting the ball over the body of the tackled player.

    That timing splinter is a tough one to get right for both players and ref.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Hang about. My understanding is that if the ball is still on the floor and the Jackler has his hands on it, even the Jackler has to take his hands off once a ruck has formed. Ie the Jackler can grab and lift the ball until the ruck is formed, but once it's formed (physical contact, ball on the floor, 2 opposing players both on their feet over the ball) then it's too late and he has to let it go.


    Are we looking at a ruck or a maul?
    Can you take a look at 15.11. it may change your opinion.

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