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Thread: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by tak.japan View Post
    With the rule change that happened a couple years ago, my understanding was that a person being there forms a ruck.
    Just to pick up on this point (as the others seem to have been covered).

    One person being over the ball does not form a ruck; an addition was made to the Tackle law (Law 10.) such that a player standing over the ball creates an offside line. However this is still a Tackle (with offside line) rather than a Ruck (law 15.). A ruck is formed when a player from each team is in contact over the ball.

    14.10 Offside lines are created at a tackle when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball, which is on the ground. Each team’s offside line runs parallel to the goal line through the hindmost point of any player in the tackle or on their feet over the ball. If that point is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for that team is the goal line.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    15.11: Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

    Nothing about having to lift it. If the ball is lifted, you could call the ruck over, no?
    That's my reading of it Rich yes. Because if the ball is lifted then we now have an attempted tackle when contact is made, which may turn into a maul subsequently as well. I am however aware of hearing (not necessarily here) stuff likke (PK against jackler, ball not lifted, hands in the ruck"

    didds

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    I have on occasion refused to award a penalty *to* the jackler because he's legit hands on, but has had an opportunity to play the ball away but has chosen to lock it against the ex ball carriers body fishing for the 'not releasing' pen, usually accompanied by a shout of 'hands on, use it' or similar. I can't imagine pinging the tackler for hands in if he was legit there first, if that were the case there'd be a call of 'hands off' unless it became material too quickly.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Can you take a look at 15.11. it may change your opinion.
    I did, but I thought there had been a clarification or guidance sent out that once the ruck had formed everybody had to release the ball.

    I know it's not what the law says, but I'll bring it up as a query in the next meeting to see if anybody else remembers it.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    I did, but I thought there had been a clarification or guidance sent out that once the ruck had formed everybody had to release the ball.

    I know it's not what the law says, but I'll bring it up as a query in the next meeting to see if anybody else remembers it.
    There was some slides to that effect .. lots of confusion caused

    Generally I think it is wise to ignore those presentations we get each season. Most of the content is completely forgotten about a few weeks later

    (This season, lane changing and dead rucks .. remember them? )

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    Arrow Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    The new changes to the law make offside lines at a tackle. Therefore if you are the tackler or tackle assist you must come back through the gate before contesting for the ball. If the ruck has not formed you may try to jackal for the ball but if it has then you must 'beat the ruck' and the teammate can pick the ball up behind. If a player is jackaling they must stay on their feet, show a clear release, come through the gate and survive the clean out (if applicable) before the penalty being award for holding on.
    Hope this helped

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by AusRugbyRef View Post
    The new changes to the law make offside lines at a tackle. Therefore if you are the tackler or tackle assist you must come back through the gate before contesting for the ball. If the ruck has not formed you may try to jackal for the ball but if it has then you must 'beat the ruck' and the teammate can pick the ball up behind. If a player is jackaling they must stay on their feet, show a clear release, come through the gate and survive the clean out (if applicable) before the penalty being award for holding on.
    Hope this helped
    I don't think this is quite right
    1 offside lines are not created at every tackle, only when someone stands over the ball
    2 coming through the gate has nothing to do with offside lines, it has been a requirement at tackles for ages
    3 different laws apply to tacklers from everyone else
    Last edited by crossref; 17-05-19 at 06:05.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    I did, but I thought there had been a clarification or guidance sent out that once the ruck had formed everybody had to release the ball.

    I know it's not what the law says, but I'll bring it up as a query in the next meeting to see if anybody else remembers it.
    I've seen nothing to that effect, and there is nothing in the laws to state this. If a jackler has hands on before the ruck is formed they are entitled to keep hands on, but as has already been said if they stay there with hands on for a prolonged period someone is probably offending, either the tackler is not releasing, or the tackler is holding the ball in trying to milk a penalty.

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    Default Re: Jackal vs hands in the ruck?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    coming through the gate has nothing to do with offside lines, it has been a requirement at tackles for ages
    He may have been referencing the recent-ish change which now also places a requirement on the tackler to approach from his own side.

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