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Thread: Why no red card?

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    So you think having a GMG is a bad idea ?

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    So you think having a GMG is a bad idea ?
    I didn't say that, I said it was good in theory....you can take a horse to water, etc.

    I am sure we all have referees we know of that will do their own thing regardless of any guidelines.

    Good idea, yes.
    Does it solve the problem of inconsistency, No.

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  3. #43

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Asia Rugby Game Management Guidelines 2019 have also a mention of the challenge in the air.
    9.3
    Challenge in the Air
    9.3.1 World Rugby has provided guidelines for situations where two players contest for a ball in the air and collide.
    (1) Play on = Fair challenge with both players in a realistic position to catch the ball (i.e., shoulder above hips of the player in the air). Even if the player lands dangerously.
    (2) PK = Not a fair challenge, wrong timing but no pulling down.
    (3) YC = Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player is pulled down/interfered with landing on their back or side.
    (4) RC = Not a fair challenge, there is no contest, whilst being a reckless or deliberate foul play action and the player lands in a dangerous position (i.e., on their head, neck or shoulder).
    In a grassroots game, without the benefit of video replays that’s going to be a tough call, especially if their 15 leaves the field of play vomiting and concussed. Calling it 9.3 might lead to some confusion with the LoTG. But at least they have a current document to refer to.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 30-05-19 at 16:05.
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  4. #44

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Good in theory, but if you follow the USA Rugby Facebook page you will know that the idea of consistency seems alien to some referees.
    That's not the only thing that is alien.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Asia Rugby Game Management Guidelines 2019 have also a mention of the challenge in the air.
    9.3
    Challenge in the Air
    9.3.1 World Rugby has provided guidelines for situations where two players contest for a ball in the air and collide.
    (1) Play on = Fair challenge with both players in a realistic position to catch the ball (i.e., shoulder above hips of the player in the air). Even if the player lands dangerously.
    (2) PK = Not a fair challenge, wrong timing but no pulling down.
    (3) YC = Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player is pulled down/interfered with landing on their back or side.
    (4) RC = Not a fair challenge, there is no contest, whilst being a reckless or deliberate foul play action and the player lands in a dangerous position (i.e., on their head, neck or shoulder).
    In a grassroots game, without the benefit of video replays that’s going to be a tough call, especially if their 15 leaves the field of play vomiting and concussed. Calling it 9.3 might lead to some confusion with the LoTG. But at least they have a current document to refer to.
    I've never ever seen a player at grass roots level get anywhere near that kind of height. Indeed to leave the floor would be unusual.

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Which is great news for all referees in Australia. Game management guidelines 2019
    What other Unions have published a similar document?

    From USA GMGs:

    7. At player collisions in the air, the following should be considered:
    ACCEPTABLE
    • If a player has a realistic opportunity to gain possession of the ball,
    determined by the timing and height of their jump, and put simply, do
    you think they could have caught the ball, then play on.
    NOT ACCEPTABLE
    • If a player does not have a realistic opportunity to gain possession/
    catch the ball and makes contact with a player in the air, or
    • A player takes deliberate action that interferes with a player in the air.

    Merely having your “eyes on the ball” is not sufficient.
    If the player’s feet makes contact with the ground first: PK
    If the player lands on their lower back area or side: PK and
    suspension
    If the receiver lands on their upper back/head/neck PK and Red Card

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    The issue is that these incidents are unavoidable because you cannot look away from the ball if you seek to jump and catch it, or even catch it, you can then only analyse the resulting incident which is often unintentional, so the outcome is then merely based on good or bad luck. Jumping for the ball is a fantastic skill, im not convinced the unavoidable potential outcomes without any malicious intent are acceptable though.
    They are avoidable by making it illegal to run and jump into the space, only vertical jumping should be permitted.

    I have brought this up numerous times before and the dependence upon luck in preventing serious and possibly life threatening injury is in "Safety Management" terms, sticking your head in the sand.

    I say this with absolute empathy for the game but outlaw the tactic before someone get's killed.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    So there are a few levels of discussion......was the decision correct regards implementation and is there soemthing wrong with the way this law is implemented, in that, if players are allowed to jump for the ball in this way, they can never be kept safe as its an accident waiting to happen. Is it a reasonable risk?

    Yes it an incident waiting to happen. It is not an accident as this implies that it is avoidable.

    No it is not a reasonable risk.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    In realtime it is RC.

    However, with the benefit of a TMO and replay there is clear mitigating circumstances for only a YC - one of which is the Black#20 causing Kearney to change his line.

    The calmness of NO showed through and the right decision was, IMHO, delivered.
    Kearney is rushing at high speed in to a situation he is not watching, he is following the ball, and therefore cannot assess the changing situation. That is reckless!

    Defending players are within their rights to stand fast. There is no mitigation it is reckless dangerous play.

  10. #50

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    Default Re: Why no red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by BikingBud View Post
    Kearney is rushing at high speed in to a situation he is not watching, he is following the ball, and therefore cannot assess the changing situation. That is reckless!

    Defending players are within their rights to stand fast. There is no mitigation it is reckless dangerous play.
    I think you'll find based on previous red cards that standing your ground is not, in fact, a valid defence.
    I disagree, but that's what red cards have been handed out for.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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