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Thread: Uncontested scrums

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    With my coaches head on, if I've got a dominant scrum in an important game and due to weather conditions the referee says we are going uncontested due to safety concerns, I could/would take my team off. A game would never start where scrums were unsafe without consent and in reality they would not continue without consent. I would not worry about defending that decision or expect sanction. I could argue my case on many levels. The referee may "so order" whatever he wants, he only gets it if the game continues, for that he would in effect need consent.
    With my Society head on, I would back my referee 100% and would expect him or her to have managed the situation as per OB’s advice. With my CB head on, I would expect the result to be the same. I might sympathise with you but your team would likely be expelled from the competition if it was a cup match with further sanction for next year’s competition. You and your club would also risk a 5.12 disciplinary, particularly if it was an ECC match rather than a merit table.
    Last edited by colesy; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:06.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    With my coaches head on, if I've got a dominant scrum in an important game and due to weather conditions the referee says we are going uncontested due to safety concerns, I could/would take my team off. A game would never start where scrums were unsafe without consent and in reality they would not continue without consent. I would not worry about defending that decision or expect sanction. I could argue my case on many levels. The referee may "so order" whatever he wants, he only gets it if the game continues, for that he would in effect need consent.
    And With my referee's hat on I will submit a report that you refused to play on under the laws of the game. yOu can argue all you like. You are wrong in law!

    What would you do if you have the dominant scrum and the opposition declare a player injured and "we have to go uncontested"? Will you take your ball home and refuse to play?

    Sorry, If you don't like the laws go and play another game.

  3. #13
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    With my coaches head on, if I've got a dominant scrum in an important game and due to weather conditions the referee says we are going uncontested due to safety concerns, I could/would take my team off.
    Because if you can't endanger the players to keep your advantage, no-one's going to play. Got it.

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    With my coaches head on, if I've got a dominant scrum in an important game and due to weather conditions the referee says we are going uncontested due to safety concerns, I could/would take my team off. A game would never start where scrums were unsafe without consent and in reality they would not continue without consent. I would not worry about defending that decision or expect sanction. I could argue my case on many levels. The referee may "so order" whatever he wants, he only gets it if the game continues, for that he would in effect need consent.
    Pitches deteriorate. What seemed great prior to kick off can after a couple of scrums not be.
    Among stiff competition, this could be the single worst post I've seen from a referee.
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  5. #15
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    And With my referee's hat on I will submit a report that you refused to play on under the laws of the game. yOu can argue all you like. You are wrong in law!

    What would you do if you have the dominant scrum and the opposition declare a player injured and "we have to go uncontested"? Will you take your ball home and refuse to play?

    Sorry, If you don't like the laws go and play another game.

    The point im making is that it would never ever happen at a decent level and probably never has. If it a lower level you decided it was unsafe to have scrims due to the state of the pitch and as a coach I decided it was then unfit to play, to ruck and to have lineouts and to tackle, the fact you had dreamed it unfit to scrummage after 3 minutes would mean you would look dafter than me for suggesting them game continued, against the wishes of on of the teams regards safety. You are a referee not God. There are clearly defined rules for other situations. I wouldn't give a toss about the report. There would be a hearing and we would both have to justify our stance. Clear cut....... I think not. That is why in these circumstances it would have to be done with the cooperation of both teams or not at all.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    What level do you coach at aamoi?

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    That is why in these circumstances it would have to be done with the cooperation of both teams or not at all.
    Well, if both teams said that they wanted to continue with contested scrums, that would give me pause for thought.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    As a referee if you actually declare out loud that in your view the pitch is unsafe for whatever reason you absolutely must NOT let yourself be persuaded to allow play to continue .. if there is a subsequent injury you have condemned yourself out of your own mouth. You thought the pitch was unsafe (you said so) but you allowed play to continue

    The dialogue in this sort of situation has to be approached very carefully. Think carefully about what you say.
    Last edited by crossref; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:06.

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    But you'd be happy to continue with contested scrums. You don't really seem to be that bothered about the pitch being unsafe provided you keep your major advantage??? Your argument that you feel the conditions would be unsafe to keep playing seems to be falling apart.

    Conditions don't have to be unsafe to play, but can be unsafe to have contested scrums. As a ref I wouldn't go uncontested unless I had too. We all want a good game, player, coaches and refs alike. But yeah, player safety needs to come first. At my level (that I play at), we all have jobs to go to on Monday.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside View Post
    The point im making is that it would never ever happen at a decent level and probably never has. If it a lower level you decided it was unsafe to have scrims due to the state of the pitch and as a coach I decided it was then unfit to play, to ruck and to have lineouts and to tackle, the fact you had dreamed it unfit to scrummage after 3 minutes would mean you would look dafter than me for suggesting them game continued, against the wishes of on of the teams regards safety. You are a referee not God. There are clearly defined rules for other situations. I wouldn't give a toss about the report. There would be a hearing and we would both have to justify our stance. Clear cut....... I think not. That is why in these circumstances it would have to be done with the cooperation of both teams or not at all.
    If you felt, or indeed the referee felt, that the pitch had become unfit to play (not specifically scrummage). The gme can and should be abandoned. HOWEVER, if you can a cross like a school boy who because he can't play with his favorite toy wanted to spoil it for the rest of his class, Then in my report I would very clearly state that the coach had no problems with the pitch until I call uncontested for safety issues. THe organisers can then draw their own coclusion as to your petulism. A pitch vertainly can be safe to play but not scrummage on.

    Incidentally I have called uncontested scrums on a perfect pitch where bot hsides THP was not , in my opinion abole to scrummage safely. I made the call after 4 attempts at the first scrum I gave both sides the choice to cahnge props as I felt they were not STE or go unconsteded. The other forwards did not have any issue with my stopping them collapse. None of the coaches ran "crying to teacher" either!

    NO: The ref is not God. He is however, to ensure player safety and equity before all else. Certainly not to pander to you.

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