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Thread: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

      
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    Default Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?


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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    Probably because the tackler got into a good tackling position, was not looking, and impacted high as the bull arrived effectively collapsed down from where he might reasonably expected to be. If the ball carrier is at a normal, standing height, the tackle comes in at lower chest height, no problems.

    now the tackler has a responsibility to ensure his tackle is not dangerous, but given this is fairly spilt second, what the Americans would all. Bang bang play, I can understand the issuance of a yellow only as there was no intent. I know the argument is contact was made to the head, tacklers responsibility therefore red, and I wouldn’t argue with that conclusion, I’m just proposing a justification for the yellow only.

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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    Agree with Zebra.

    Black 21 is already head down/arms out preparing for the tackle - a split second later, Red 15 ducks as Black 21 wraps what he expects to be the upper body of Red 15, except - there is nothing to wrap and it ends up looking like a swinging arm. In fact, Red 15 has ducked so low that there is very nearly what would have been a horrible head clash. Short of having ESP, Black 21 has absolutely no way to know (nor should he be expected to predict) that Red 15 would duck.

    In ruthlessly punishing players for tackling ball-catchers in the air, we have trained them to time their tackles so that the first contact with the opponent when his feet are back on the ground. If we are now going to further expect the tackler to wait until he sees the opponent isn't going to duck, we might as well ditch the tackle from the game, and play touch rugby.


    ETA: All that said, I had the chance to look at it as many time as I like, in the comfort of my living room, with a cup of tea and a biscuit, and under no pressure, and with no review consequences if I get it wrong. A red card would not have surprised me.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 17-06-19 at 21:06.
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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    There have been a flurry of cards at this u20 Championship. Referees are looking at mitigating circumstances, like ball-carrier dipping into the tackle. Force is an important element too. I am not convinced that escalating penalties to Red or Yellow cards is actually getting the message across.

    U20 Championship 2019: Disciplinary has a growing list of cited players and Citing Commissioner Warnings. Along with numerous players receiving High Risk Contact Technique Warnings for poor technique.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 17-06-19 at 22:06.
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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    There is that, however we have just had the flowcharts to help deal with these. If we say its a high tackle its a red card for two reasons - the original hit snd the follow up arm.

    If the argument is red has dipped into the tackle it follows you are arguing a catcher must stand fully upright when catching and not soften their landing by bending the knees.

    Was red looking for a pen and acting deliberately? Possibly but it doesnt look like it.

    Should the tackler have taken more care? Almost certainly.

    I predict a citing and a month.

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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeScjZBrvM

    if the tackle at 00:50 in this is a RC, hard to fathom how the OP's tackle isn't red too.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Last edited by Dickie E; 17-06-19 at 22:06.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by tewdric View Post
    If the argument is red has dipped into the tackle it follows you are arguing a catcher must stand fully upright when catching and not soften their landing by bending the knees.

    No, I'm not, and that isn;t what happened

    Red 15 did not lower himself by bending his knees as much as he lowers his torso and bends forward.

    Lowering your head into the path of an oncoming tackler is never going to end well. If any of my lads did that regularly, I would be asking them to explain why they did it and coaching them not to.
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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    No, I'm not, and that isn;t what happened

    Red 15 did not lower himself by bending his knees as much as he lowers his torso and bends forward.

    Lowering your head into the path of an oncoming tackler is never going to end well. If any of my lads did that regularly, I would be asking them to explain why they did it and coaching them not to.
    not your lads of course, but maybe some could be being coached to do so to win a PK and card.

    I would never totally reject such an suspicion (whilst totally abhoring the idea!)

    didds

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    Default Re: Wales v All Blacks U20 - how is this not a red card?

    Following the new flowchart.

    • It fits the description of a high tackle, not a shoulder charge.
    • There is direct arm contact with the head (4)
    • It is Direct with a high degree of danger (Tackler draws back arm prior to contact, Arm swings forward prior to contact, tackler is attempting a dominant tackle and the tackle is completed) all that says high degree of danger so the chart says Red.
    • There are aggravating factors (tackler in open space, clear line of sight, and time before contact) therefore mitigating circumstances like ducking into it cannot be taken into consideration.
    • So it stays a Red.

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