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Thread: Is this a forward pass?

      
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    Default Is this a forward pass?

    What is the correct decision in this situation?

    The ball carrier (let’s call him BC1) is held up in an attempted tackle and he turns towards his own goal line;
    One of his team mates (let’s call him BC2) comes in from behind him and also gets hold of the ball (so we now have BC1 & BC2 with their hands firmly on the ball);
    The three players end up slowly rotating 180 degrees;
    The BC1 now releases his grip on the ball;
    BC2 breaks free from the mini-maul and continues upfield with the ball;

    Is this a forward pass or not?

    I had this happen in a game last weekend. To me this did not look like a forward pass and I let play continue. However some of the defending team thought it should have been given.

    Opinions?

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    yeah, forward pass for me. BC1 is continuously in posssession until he lets it go.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Agree with Dickie. This used to be much more clearly spelled out in the 2017 edition of the Laws, but now you have to cobble together a couple of bits of definitions (my emphasis throughout):

    Is it a pass? Yes:

    Pass: A player throws or hands the ball to another player.


    Was it forwards? Yes:

    Forward: Towards the opposition’s dead-ball line.


    Do these two facts meet the definition of a throw forward? Yes:

    Throw forward: When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward.


    It doesn't qualify for the exception under 11.5(b), because that's only for ripping from an opponent, not your team-mate:
    11.5 The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:
    b. A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.


    So you apply the scrum sanction under Law 11:
    11.6 A throw forward may occur anywhere in the playing area. Sanction: Scrum.
    Last edited by Pablo; 18-06-19 at 12:06.
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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    The player passes (the act of handing the ball) backwards. I'd say maul over, play on, and I don't think anyone keeps track of this in a larger rotating maul.

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Interested in this one. Assuming the player receiving the ball is starts behind the player he has possession too. In the instant that the original BC lets go I'd suggest there is no forward movement as the 2nd BC is in possession simultaneously and the pass has occurred when the 2nd BC was behind the player, otherwise he'd have been offside.

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Pass: A player throws or hands the ball to another player.

    Since both players have the ball in their grasp, it is neither thrown nor handed, therefore it is not a pass.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Interested in this one. Assuming the player receiving the ball is starts behind the player he has possession too. In the instant that the original BC lets go I'd suggest there is no forward movement as the 2nd BC is in possession simultaneously and the pass has occurred when the 2nd BC was behind the player, otherwise he'd have been offside.
    this is pinhead territory, but I'd contend that BC1 maintains possession until he lets the ball go.

    Likewise, Blue ball carrier is held up be Red who gets both hands on ball. If the ensuing maul ends unsuccessfully, Red scrum as Blue maintained possession and took the ball into the maul.

    Or Blue diving over for try. If Red gets both hands on ball prior to grounding (ie 2 pairs of hands on ball) that is a try.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 20-06-19 at 06:06.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Pass: A player throws or hands the ball to another player.

    Since both players have the ball in their grasp, it is neither thrown nor handed, therefore it is not a pass.
    On the contrary ..BC1 hands the ball to BC2

    That's what handing means: rhe recipient gets a grip before the giver lets go

    It is a Pass (and a forward one)

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It is a Pass (and a forward one)
    this is the nub. First contact by BC2 was when BC2 was closer to his own goal line than BC1. However, last contact by BC1 was when BC1 was closer to his own goal line than BC2. So at what exact point does "hands the ball" take place?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    this is the nub. First contact by BC2 was when BC2 was closer to his own goal line than BC1. However, last contact by BC1 was when BC1 was closer to his own goal line than BC2. So at what exact point does "hands the ball" take place?
    Yes, that's a better question.. I'd say it's when the ball is released

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