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Thread: Brumbies vs Reds YC

      
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    Default Brumbies vs Reds YC

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9vh...=youtu.be&t=15

    Not sure i understand the rationale here.
    If there is contact with the head it should be a red, but if it's not, it means it's shoulder to shoulder which as far i understand is legal.
    There is an attempt to wrap, so clearly not a no-arms penalty.

    What am i missing? Thanks in advance.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    As i see it...
    Using the new grid (are they using it too?)
    It's not a shoulder charge becasue the tacklers arms are not behind him and not tucked away in a sling position.
    So i'ts a high tackle and we follow the flow chart.
    No direct contact to the head as the initial contact was shoulder to shoulder.
    It therefore goes down the indirect (slips up) route, which gives Yellow or Penalty only.
    Aggravating factors (in open space, time to line him up) means no reduction for mitigating factors.
    High degree of danger becasue its a dominant tackle and the tackle is completed.
    So it's a yellow card.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Not 100% convinced that it was contact with the head (although there was a whiplash like effect on head and neck, did I imagine it but that's relevant now?) so I don't think I would consider red if I saw it the same in the sticks. However, no attempt to wrap and significant force so yellow easily for me.

    For what it's worth I didn't like the ref's explanation of his decision and I don't think it helped him, as if high and with force then that is red surely? Right outcome, wrong explanation.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Depends where our High tackle line is. If its the nipple/arm pit height, then yes high tackle, YC. If not, then we're looking at timing. Slightly late but within tolerance IMO. I saw a wrap attempt and for me if was adequate enough, I didn't see head contact either. Possibly he sciffed the scrum cap but that had no bearing on the play and to me wasn't C and O. Personally I'd play on and award the try (subject to the tackle height line).
    Last edited by Arabcheif; 17-06-19 at 15:06.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Depends where our High tackle line is. If its the nipple/arm pit height, then yes high tackle, YC. If not, then we're looking at timing. Slightly late but within tolerance IMO. I saw a wrap attempt and for me if was adequate enough, I didn't see head contact either. Possibly he sciffed the scrum cap but that had no bearing on the play and to me wasn't C and O. Personally I'd play on and award the try (subject to the tackle height line).
    High tackle is above the shoulder, you can argue it’s high with the benefit of a TMO, I couldn’t be sure with one glance at full speed

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Listen to the AR beginning at 2:07 on the YT timer; it explains the decision which for me, is the correct one.

    Over here, we call that a "cheap shot"!
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 17-06-19 at 19:06.
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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    I see a dangerous shoulder charge, no attempt to wrap, I’m looking minimum yellow. Real time I didn’t see head contact so I would go YC for a dangerous shoulder charge.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Listen to the AR beginning at 2:07 on the YT timer; it explains the decision which for me, is the correct one.

    Over here, we call that a "cheap shot"!
    This is precisely why i opened this thread. I cant reconcile what i see with that conversation.
    I see shoulder to shoulder, attempt to wrap and i think calling it late would be very harsh.
    Guess we just see different things.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    Here is the transcript of the ref's explanation to the player

    Listen, so what we've got here, i've got nothing wrong with the timing, ok?(1)But you could have tackled the player lower, so you've gone high.
    (2)There's a lot of force.
    (3)You are very close to his head.
    So you're lucky it's just a yellow card.
    Numbers are mine.
    1) Non sequitur. Being able to go lower doesn't imply high tackle.
    2) Irrelevant if the tackle is legal.
    3) Again, irrelevant if the tackle is legal.

    So in a nutshell, ref implicitly acknowledges there is no contact with the head (even thou the TMO says he does see contact), but still says it was a high tackle.

    I understand that refs dont want to get into arguments with players but sometimes a simple line can clarify the criteria to the player. I thought the reds captain "is shoulder high?" question is a fair one. You can either say "yes" or "no, but i say it above the shoulder. End off". Either way you avoid a long conversation while at the same you give the player enough information to adjust and prevent this from happening again.

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    Default Re: Brumbies vs Reds YC

    For me it was one of two things. it was either a shoulder charge without grasping - that he waved his right arm about behind the player is not enough for me, in which case it was a penalty and for the reasons outlined by Phil above, that it was dominant, with force and completed mean to me YC. If you think he got enough wrap with the arms, then we are into is this a dangerous tackle? Does not have to be high to be dangerous. I for one would not like to see that sort of tackle in the grass roots games I ref. but w e had a long debate here about a tackle in a South African school game where there was a difference of opinion about what was an acceptable tackle.

    It is clear here that the ref thought this was an unacceptable tackle, the tackler had little regard for the safety of his opponent and was close to a RC. I agree his explanation was a bit confusing, but I am happy overall with the YC decision

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