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Thread: Is this a forward pass?

      
  1. #21
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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    yes, you've confused me too. Are you saying that more or less immediate transfer of possession is OK irrespective of who is in front of whom?
    Refer to the post OB Quoted:


    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    crossref[/B]]
    What does "hands the ball" mean to you then ?

    What it says on the tin. More or less immediate transfer of possession.

    I take that to be passes is Hands immediately whereas in the OP tboth players stay holding the ball for some time. Therefore = NOT immediate transfer and therby not a pass.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    OB I think you are in a muddle

    To me the OP describes one player handing the ball to anther player. So that's a pass.

    At the moment of transfer the receiving player is in front of the giving player , so it's a forward pass

    Whether it's intentional or not, you would have to be there to judge . But my view is that a simple scrum is best
    The muddle results from the fact that the laws do not deal with joint possession, so we are trying to decide what to do using laws that were never intended to cover the situation.

    You are defining the timing of the transfer using your own view, since it is not dealt with in the laws. I think you are being inappropriately legalistic.
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  3. #23

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    yes, you've confused me too. Are you saying that more or less immediate transfer of possession is OK irrespective of who is in front of whom?
    No - I am pointing out that the legalistic approach being used leads to an unintended confusion over offside from a forward pass.

    For a normal pass the receiver will usually be behind the passer and therefore onside. The law simply makes it clear that merely catching a forward pass does not necessarily make a player offside.

    However when the ball is handed to another player, both are in contact with the ball at some moment. In that case a player starting in front of the original ball carrier would be offside before playing the ball. The provision about receiving an unintentional forward pass would not make sense.


    To me this underlines the fact that laws do not cover the situation we are trying to deal with.
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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The muddle results from the fact that the laws do not deal with joint possession, so we are trying to decide what to do using laws that were never intended to cover the situation.

    You are defining the timing of the transfer using your own view, since it is not dealt with in the laws. I think you are being inappropriately legalistic.
    1 At the start BC 1 has possession
    2 Then BC1 and BC2 both have it
    3 Then BC1 release and BC 2 has possession

    You are saying that if 2 is a short time, that is handing the ball
    But if 2 takes a bit longer then it isn't

    You think the ball can even be transferred forwards if it is done slowly enough ?

    I think that's fanciful
    Last edited by crossref; 4 Weeks Ago at 13:06.

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    1 At the start BC 1 has possession
    2 Then BC1 and BC2 both have it
    3 Then BC1 release and BC 2 has possession

    You are saying that if 2 is a short time, that is handing the ball
    But if 2 takes a bit longer then it isn't

    I think that's fanciful
    I think it is far more realistic than your view, which involves a player firmly & legally holding the ball becoming offside sometime afterwards
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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I think it is far more realistic than your view, which involves a player firmly & legally holding the ball becoming offside sometime afterwards
    I didnt mention offside
    I said it is a forward pass. A forward pass doesn't make you offside

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    If you start onside and run forward to catch a forward pass, you are not offside and the sanction is only a scrum.
    obviously if we were offside and play the ball that is a penalty.

    But as we allow momentum an offside player who is standing still could receives a valid pass.
    usually the passing player will have out them onside before they get the ball.
    But if the previous ball carrier is tackled they might not have put them onside.

    Edge cases are fun.

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I didnt mention offside
    I said it is a forward pass. A forward pass doesn't make you offside
    If you hand the ball to a player in front of you,that player is clearly offside. 10.3 refers to an unintentional forward pass. Does the forward pass become intentional if you know the receiver is offside?

    We are treating the laws like a Procrustean bed in the belief that whatever happens on the field, it must be possible to make it fit into the existing wording.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    I think the point is that there's nothing that really covers 2 players being in possession before one releases. What happens if the 2nd BC releases the ball to the 1st BC. Do we have a forward pass there?

    There's nothing to cover it, so I'd just play on.

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    Default Re: Is this a forward pass?

    What if the player nearer to the opposition goal line rips the ball off his teammate, instead of his teammate handing it to him?

    How do you tell the difference?

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


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