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Thread: retaken conversion

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    8.22 If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal,
    (Re Penalty Kicks)

    At this point "the kicker" is unidentified.

    I think It is unnecessary to read the law as requiring the same person to retake a conversion.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #12

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    8.22 If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal,
    (Re Penalty Kicks)

    At this point "the kicker" is unidentified.

    I think It is unnecessary to read the law as requiring the same person to retake a conversion.

    It doesn't usually happen that the kicker is the player who indicates the kick, its usually the captain.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  3. #13

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Id be happy with the way it was handled.

    If you want to be pedantic about it and define that it must be the same kicker then if as was suggested what happens if he gets injured ? Theres nothing in law that allows the kicker to be changed (youve effectively backed yourself into a very smelly corner here) according to your definition of the law. So you end up with a conversion to be taken and a kicker that cant take the kick, now thats a situation that you have made all about yourself.
    Courage is knowing what lies on the other side and still opening the door !

  4. #14

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelflife View Post
    Id be happy with the way it was handled.

    If you want to be pedantic about it and define that the it must be the same kicker then if as was suggested what happens if he gets injured ? Theres nothing in law that allows the kicker to be changed (youve effectively backed yourself into a very smelly corner here) according to your definition of the law. So you end up with a conversion to be taken and a kicker that cant take the kick, now thats a situation that you have made all about yourself.
    if the kicker injured himself taking the kick, then common sense would prevail - he goes off and someone else take the kick (not the replacement though). Can't see anyone getting upset about that.

    chance of this happening? very low
    - retaken kicks are rare (I have had to order that, but I can't remember the last time)
    - kickers injuring them self taking a kick are rare (I have seen in on TV, but I don't think I have seen it in any game I have reffed)
    chance of both happening on the same kick... once every 100,000 conversion kicks?
    Last edited by crossref; 23-06-19 at 12:06.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Bit of a cop out there crossref, on one hand you have carefully analysed the grammar and nuance of a law wording and made your decision on that, and then immediately after youve thrown out the law book and applied common sense with no basis in law ?

    Chances of it happening is irrelevant, it has happened its unfolding in front of your eyes and you have to deal with it.

    Personally Id be on the OPs side here rather than having to try and explain the nuance of a word to an irate coach after the game.
    Courage is knowing what lies on the other side and still opening the door !

  6. #16

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelflife View Post
    Bit of a cop out there crossref, on one hand you have carefully analysed the grammar and nuance of a law wording and made your decision on that, and then immediately after youve thrown out the law book and applied common sense with no basis in law ?

    Chances of it happening is irrelevant, it has happened its unfolding in front of your eyes and you have to deal with it.

    Personally Id be on the OPs side here rather than having to try and explain the nuance of a word to an irate coach after the game.
    I haven't analysed the grammar and nuance !! It's just the plain meaning of the sentence.

    So - I'd apply the Laws as written - the kicker must retake the kick

    if something unusual happened that wasn't covered by Law I'd have to make a judgement about the equitable way to proceed - that's what we do
    Last edited by crossref; 23-06-19 at 13:06.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    What did I tell you Dickie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    .....Now, if one was being a pedantic, jobsworth grammar Nazi, one could interpret "the kicker" as meaning that it must be the same kicker (and I can think of at least one other member here who would probably do so just to be a contrarian)
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  8. #18

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    I would like to point out this

    RESTARTING PLAY AFTER A MARK
    5. The player who claimed the mark takes the free-kick (in accordance with Law 20).


    Now the Law does specify this for Free Kick from a Mark. However, for a conversion it does not, therefore, IMO, it is reasonable to assume that if the intent was for the same player to take the conversion again, the Law would say so.

    It doesn't!
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    what is with the childish name calling? Why can't you stop yourself?
    Why don't the other mods stop you?

    your orginal post starts off by acknowledging what the plain meaning of the Law is ... before you then go on to give a convoluted account of why it should be interpreted to mean something different

  10. #20

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    Default Re: retaken conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    what is with the childish name calling? Why can't you stop yourself?
    Why don't the other mods stops you?
    This site is was supposed to be about "Better Officials, Better Game", not about showing what clever Dicks posters could be in their attempts to be the edgelords of rugby refereeing. It is about helping referees with decisions and situations they encounter, either during their own matches, or matches they have seen, and for them to seek and receive good, sound advice from more experienced referees.

    Your constant taking of a deliberately opposite view from the more experienced members here serves only to confuse rather than enlighten those who come here for advice, and thereby, diminishing the value and effectiveness of the site.

    One of the main reasons I don't post here as often as I used to is you. Your constant contrarian attitude, your insistence reinterpreting Laws in strange and unconventional ways that no-one else does, grew tiresome and boring, and I got sick of it.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 23-06-19 at 13:06.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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