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Thread: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

      
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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Right, so again. Please answer my question. Are you guys are OK with tacklers leading with the shoulder and not wrapping? As this is what you seem to be saying.

    If he was facing away for B13, B13 would've run into the back of Beale, not his shoulder. If that was the case, then you're 100% right, but the contact was made with the shoulder. the shoulder gentlemen, This is the crux. any other contact and I'd be agreeing with you, it's one of those rugby incidents play on. But he made contact with his shoulder.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    He did not ‘lead’ with his shoulder, he was turning round almost on the spot. The B13 continued moving forward. There was contact with KB’s shoulder. You are saying that KB deliberately went towards B13 with his shoulder. I think that both OB... and I are suggesting that this is not the case.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Contact was made with the shoulder, with the arm in the sling position. This is the definition of a shoulder charge in the decision making matrix. I'm not sure why you seem to not be getting this. But I give up, the video is there. It's clear as day to me that contact was made with the shoulder.

    I note you've still not answered my question though. Given you seem not have an issue with Mr Farrell's tackling technique, it seems to suggest you have no issue with a no arms tackle. god help the player's safety in your matches.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Contact was made with the shoulder, with the arm in the sling position. This is the definition of a shoulder charge in the decision making matrix. I'm not sure why you seem to not be getting this. But I give up, the video is there. It's clear as day to me that contact was made with the shoulder.

    I note you've still not answered my question though. Given you seem not have an issue with Mr Farrell's tackling technique, it seems to suggest you have no issue with a no arms tackle. god help the player's safety in your matches.
    Perhaps the important points are these:

    People agree there was contact shoulder to head. So PK

    People disagree as to whether it was intentional.

    Some feel that it warrants a Red card

    Some feel that it warrants a Yellow card

    Some feel think PK only

    People disagree


    The citing officer, evidenced by the lack of a citing felt that it was either a Yellow Card or PK only.

    The on-field officials either missed it or felt it was PK only and as a try was scored there was no need to go back the the penalty.

    All are valid opinions.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Perhaps the important points are these:

    People agree there was contact shoulder to head. So PK

    People disagree as to whether it was intentional.

    Some feel that it warrants a Red card

    Some feel that it warrants a Yellow card

    Some feel think PK only

    People disagree


    The citing officer, evidenced by the lack of a citing felt that it was either a Yellow Card or PK only.

    The on-field officials either missed it or felt it was PK only and as a try was scored there was no need to go back the the penalty.

    All are valid opinions.

    I don't think there was contact to the head. just a no-arms charge with the shoulder. Intent in this is irrelevant. We wouldn't not penalise a high tackle for example because it wasn't meant. High is high. Likewise with this, he's went in with his shoulder fist, with his arm in the sling position. So we're looking at a max YC as there is no head contact. The low degree of danger here for me would mean I'd just be looking at Pen. But as you said, advantage was/wasn't played (if it was missed) and the try scored anyway.

    So I'd say the right decision was made for no action. Pen only for the no arms charge/tackle, no YC and try scored. I was taking out of the full scenario and dealing with the actual point of contact only.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Contact was made with the shoulder, with the arm in the sling position. This is the definition of a shoulder charge in the decision making matrix. I'm not sure why you seem to not be getting this. But I give up, the video is there. It's clear as day to me that contact was made with the shoulder.

    I note you've still not answered my question though. Given you seem not have an issue with Mr Farrell's tackling technique, it seems to suggest you have no issue with a no arms tackle. god help the player's safety in your matches.
    Why are you so upset about others (more senior and experienced others) having a different view than yours? If I'm pulling out of a tackle and running in the (almost) opposite direction, and a ball carrier runs his face into my shoulder, you'd PK and card the player looking to avoid contact?

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Actually if you freeze the replay of the incident you will see that B13 actually kicks KB on the hip in the process of kicking the ball. Accidental but reckless - red card. Try should be disallowed.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    a no-arms charge with the shoulder. Intent in this is irrelevant.
    You chose to describe it as a charge, which implies intent. I would describe it as unplanned contact.

    In F1 I think it would be described as a "racing incident" ie something that happens when two people are trying to do something reasonable but it goes wrong.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    I must admit that in terms of possible foul play as a citing officer I’d be more interested in having a close look at the actions of A11 (59secs) just before B13 gets the ball, and maybe some obstruction of supporting players.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    I don't see it. PK for (unintended) obstruction at the very most; he can't teleport out of there.

    Arab - charging (like Owen Farrell) is more than just any contact at all, it's driving into your opponent. That's common usage too. You can hardly call it charging if someone's turning and accelerating in the opposite direction after the ball. BCs who've just played the ball away run into defenders all the time.

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