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Thread: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    So if the BC still had the ball in hands it would be ok too? No, I'm considering a YC every time. Dependent on the level of danger. This may not peak to a YC but others that look similar may.
    Once the player kicks, Beale can no longer tackle him, so he then bring his arm in and tries to turn away. The two players clash.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    At very best it was a slight attempt to obstruct and not charge. But as I said, it was the ball carrier that was running forward and decided to go to the opposite side of his kick. KB can read a game well but mind-reading is a step beyond that. For citing purposes or YC we are looking for deliberate or reckless actions for foul play. This was neither.

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    You guys must have lots of injuries in you matches if you allow that. His arm is in the sling position. All he turns and leads with his shoulder. This seems to be the only time that you gents are prepared to allow this kind of collision. My issues is the arm in the sling position and him turning to lead with his shoulder. For me there's no change of direction, he just ran into the B13 (leading with the shoulder). Clear shoulder charge. You're argument seems to be the as long as a tackler is standing still he doesn't need to wrap (or attempt to wrap).

    I'm guessing you guys are supporting Owen Farrell's defence the the BC lead with his shoulder too, as the excuse for hime being allowed to tackle with the poor technique he does?

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Once the player kicks, Beale can no longer tackle him, so he then bring his arm in and tries to turn away. The two players clash.

    Seriously? You'd give a pen for a late but legal tackle in this scenario but be ok with this shoulder charge?

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    You guys must have lots of injuries in you matches if you allow that. His arm is in the sling position. All he turns and leads with his shoulder. This seems to be the only time that you gents are prepared to allow this kind of collision. My issues is the arm in the sling position and him turning to lead with his shoulder. For me there's no change of direction, he just ran into the B13 (leading with the shoulder). Clear shoulder charge. You're argument seems to be the as long as a tackler is standing still he doesn't need to wrap (or attempt to wrap).

    I'm guessing you guys are supporting Owen Farrell's defence the the BC lead with his shoulder too, as the excuse for hime being allowed to tackle with the poor technique he does?
    I don't see any similarity with Farrell's tackling technique.

    Beale had his right arm out wide to make the tackle with wrap. When the ball was kicked he was caught: he could no longer tackle, so he tried to turn away and follow the ball, which naturally meant bringing his arm in. This resulted in an unintended clash as the kicker simply ploughed on. You are entitled to your opinion, but I do not share it.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Seriously? You'd give a pen for a late but legal tackle in this scenario but be ok with this shoulder charge?
    Who said I would give a PK for a late tackle if Beale had carried though his initial aim?

    I think it was unfortunate timing. There was just enough time to realise his tackle would be late. His attempt to turn away and the passer's continued run meant they clashed.

    I cannot see this as a deliberate shoulder charge.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    If I was in court I would argue that the video shows a ball carrier kicking the ball away and then deliberately runs forward into the back of a defender who is trying to avoid tackling him. On the street this would be an assault by the All Black!

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Who said I would give a PK for a late tackle if Beale had carried though his initial aim?

    I think it was unfortunate timing. There was just enough time to realise his tackle would be late. His attempt to turn away and the passer's continued run meant they clashed.

    I cannot see this as a deliberate shoulder charge.

    The implication from when you said that Beale is not allowed to tackle b13 as soon as he kicks. Suggests that you'd view this as a late tackle. and sanction it as such. I'd see it as a defender who was committed to a tackle and couldn't pull out, play on.

    You're saying that as long as the defender has his arms out to wrap initially, he's allowed to then bring them in for contact?

    @Balones - I'd counter argue that the Kicker/Chaser is permitted to chose his own line to run. He's not deviated enough to make a significant difference in where any contact would've been.

    You guys seem to be inferring that if he'd kept the ball in hands and that contact was made in the same manner, you be happy enough with the attempted tackle.

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    You guys seem to be inferring that if he'd kept the ball in hands and that contact was made in the same manner, you be happy enough with the attempted tackle.
    No. If the ball hadn't been kicked the tackle would probably have been legal since Beale was ready to wrap.

    However the kick changed everything and Beale had a split second to react. He chose to pull out of the tackle but was unable to get out of the way. You want to card him for that and I don't.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post

    @Balones - I'd counter argue that the Kicker/Chaser is permitted to chose his own line to run. He's not deviated enough to make a significant difference in where any contact would've been.
    Any player is allowed to chose their own line to run at any time; attacker or defender. When doing so you mustn't do anything illegal. Here KB is actually facing away from the AB when contact is made. What would happen on the road if a driver went into the back of another? I don’t think you would suggest that a tackler cannot pull out of a tackle, or would you?

    I stick to my position that at a worst case scenario it was a case of accidental obstruction and that KB could have been penalised for on the basis of expectation rather than anything actually deliberately illegal. Disciplinary committees would soon get fed up if citing officers submitted this type of incident for consideration. I would go further and say that any citing officer making such a call on a regular basis would soon lose credibility.

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