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Thread: Charge down & off side

      
  1. #51
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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    A failed catch can be a knock on. It depends where the ball goes next.

    i believe we were all reasonably intelligent people, who can tell the difference between a failed catch that goes BACKWARD (play on) and a failed catch that goes FORWARD (knock on).
    Yes, I'm aware of that. A failed catch (from a kick) that goes forward is just a knock-on. We don't call it something different, it's just a knock-on. I felt that in my comment that just mentioned a "failed catch," it was clear that the failed catch would have went back as I didn't use the term knocked-on.

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Well you know what "felt" did.

  3. #53

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Well you know what "felt" did.
    Leaked the White House tapes to the Washington Post, right?

    Several Nixon administration veterans have criticized Felt for helping the Post.

    G. Gordon Liddy, who helped plan the Watergate break-in as a member of the White House Plumbers unit, said Felt "violated the ethics of the law enforcement profession" by talking to the newspaper rather than turning his information over to a grand jury. Bradlee said critics like Liddy, who served four and a half years in prison for his roles in the scandal and the Plumbers' activities, have little credibility.

    "Where would Felt have gone?" Bradlee told CNN. "He saw something wrong in the government, and what should he have done?
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 02-09-19 at 14:09.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  4. #54

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    I think we can all agree that the law is unclear in this situation. As such I fall back on what does everyone expect? In my experience, everyone expects any form of touch from an attempted charge down to cancel offsides, regardless of if the ball goes forwards backwards, up or down. This is why some referees (and players!) shout "touched" to indicate everyone is now onside.

    I would not equate this with one of the many incorrect myths of the game, it is an accepted interpretation of another poorly worded law. I really don't want to get into technical conversations mid game, or in a brief, about the differences between a charge down and an attempted charge down and why I referee this differently to 95% of other referees, so I stick to the accepted practice that any touch from a charge down means no offside.

    Does anyone referee this differently in practice?

  5. #55

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    I think we can all agree that the law is unclear in this situation. As such I fall back on what does everyone expect? In my experience, everyone expects any form of touch from an attempted charge down to cancel offsides, regardless of if the ball goes forwards backwards, up or down. This is why some referees (and players!) shout "touched" to indicate everyone is now onside.

    I would not equate this with one of the many incorrect myths of the game, it is an accepted interpretation of another poorly worded law. I really don't want to get into technical conversations mid game, or in a brief, about the differences between a charge down and an attempted charge down and why I referee this differently to 95% of other referees, so I stick to the accepted practice that any touch from a charge down means no offside.

    Does anyone referee this differently in practice?
    this thread has got a little confused.

    The law is perfectly clear that any deliberate touch of the ball puts your opponents onside

    player-put-onside-by-opponents-en.jpg

    The ambiguity is whether or not the 10m Law applies, which is a slightly different thing -

    The10-metre law [...] applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but not when the kick is charged down


    so, to determine when and where the 10m Law applies you need to know the difference between a charge down, and any other type of playing the ball.
    Last edited by crossref; 02-09-19 at 21:09.

  6. #56

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by buff View Post
    Wales vs Ireland this weekend. Welsh player kicks and an Irish player touches the ball trying to charge down the kick, but it carries on towards the Irish goal . Poite yells "Ball touched" and the Welsh players who were ahead of the ball chase downfield. Just past 8:00 on the YouTube clock.

    https://youtu.be/XadlC5LY6Xc?t=6m50s
    Not a 10m law example though.

  7. #57

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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    This is why some referees (and players!) shout "touched" to indicate everyone is now onside.

    Does anyone referee this differently in practice?
    It doesn't put "everyone" onside.
    It puts all the kickers team onside, plus the charger downer and any of his team behind him.

    Any of the chargers team who are in front of the charge down are still offside as they are in front of a team-mate who last played the ball.

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  8. #58
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    Default Re: Charge down & off side

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    It doesn't put "everyone" onside.
    It puts all the kickers team onside, plus the charger downer and any of his team behind him.

    Any of the chargers team who are in front of the charge down are still offside as they are in front of a team-mate who last played the ball.
    Good point.

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