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Thread: Owens to referee Wales

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Statsguru, ESPN scrum.com list over 3000 International matches since 1871. How many of those should be considered test matches is open to debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ESPN
    What constitutes a Test match?
    In rugby union it is a game where ONE country awards full test caps for its players, not like cricket when both sides must award caps for it to count.
    Also, one country may even award caps when the opponents are not even a country (as with Wales against the Barbarians in 1990 and 1996, or even when countries play against another country's second teams or age group sides.
    For the purposes of completeness games involving the British and Irish Lions (and their forerunners) and the Pacific Islanders have been included, although are not strictly official caps as the games were not for a single country but a combined team.
    Stuart Farmer, SFMS
    The idea that the matches are a "test of strength and competency" between the sides involved, means Top 10 Nations should not get a cap for putting 80 points on a minor rugby nation. The minnows get far less games every year and are no test for the major sides.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 05-09-19 at 11:09.
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    One example, local to France, might be the case of Monaco. They have won 9 caps since the introduction of the ranking points system, prior to RWc 2003. These days they prefer to compete in Fedérale 3. I am surprised they still figure on the WR rankings.

    Their rating may be deemed to be 'dormant', in which case they will be removed from current ranking lists. However, when they are active again they will pick up their rating from where they left off.

    Apparently teams that haven’t played an International test match in the past couple of years should no longer figure in the current rankings. I wonder how many other “International teams” listed on the WR rankings don’t meet this requirement?

    Rwanda who have 3 caps since September 2003. Two at their International debut and a further one in 2010.
    (They appear to have changed codes in the meanwhile.) Rwanda Silverbacks are an amateur sports team, how could they compare to the likes of New Zealand in a test match?
    We need to compare like with like. I don’t think half the National sides on the WR rankings have tested their strength and competence against another National squad in some while. It’d be interesting to see WR stats used for compiling the current rankings.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 05-09-19 at 13:09.
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    No, as he is on the panel of referees for the RWC
    This game is after the RWC.

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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by buff View Post
    This game is after the RWC.
    Spot on
    Welshman Nigel Owens will referee a Wales game for the first time when they host Barbarians on 30 November.
    I notice that Sweden (46 points) who are 50th in the WR rankings only played a couple of matches in 2019 and a couple last year. (4 in 12 moths) While Thailand (36 points) in 75th place played 6 games in the last 12 months. The rankings penalize teams for going out and representing their country; playing more games puts you at the risk of losing more points.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 05-09-19 at 13:09.
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    It’d be interesting to see WR stats used for compiling the current rankings.
    There is an unofficial alternative ranking system, World Rugby Rankings, which lists all the matches it takes into account http://wrr.live555.com/results.txt
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Ok I will have a look. I am convinced some teams haven’t had a test match in the last 12 months, surely they should be trimmed from the rankings. New Zealand had 10 International matches so far in 2019. That stretches to 21 tests over the last 12 months. It would most likely be dangerous for any of 95th to 105th of WR rankings to line out against a Top 10 team.
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    It would most likely be dangerous for any of 95th to 105th of WR rankings to line out against a Top 10 team.
    even within the potentials of RWC qualification, whilst I agree entirely, would that likely ever happen?

    095 NORWAY
    096 RWANDA
    097 COSTA RICA
    098 NIUE ISLAND
    099 CAMEROON
    100 SOLOMON ISLANDS
    101 MONACO
    102 GREECE
    103 INDONESIA
    104 VANUATU
    105 AMERICAN SAMOA

    To even get to a RWC though qualification etc they presumably would have to beat the might of the likes of

    50 SWEDEN
    51 TRINIDAD & TOBAGO
    52 MADAGASCAR
    53 COOK ISLANDS
    54 SENEGAL
    55 MOLDOVA
    56 SINGAPORE
    57 LATVIA
    58 CAYMAN ISLANDS
    59 LUXEMBOURG
    60 GUYANA




    I just don't see it happening - outside of our RR chats of course

    didds

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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I don’t envisage it ever happening. My point is the list of 105 International teams currently ranked is a farce. This number is misleading. Using the WR results per team mechanic, we can see which teams have had no matches in the last 12 months.

    As for Top 10 teams meeting minnows, this happens once every 4 years. If you accept that this years hosts, currently at 10th in the rankings haven’t got an outside chance of winning the RWC 2019, then it goes without saying the other ten teams are only there to make up the numbers. We will over the 7 weeks, see more than one trouncing. So a list that includes International squads formed from mostly Professional players should be separate from those squads formed mostly from amateurs.
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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    All very reasoinable comments ?:-) Though on the whole the troucnings dont seem these days to be as bad as 20 years ago maybe... 100 poiunt wins dont seem to be the norm against the minnows in each group, and on a bad day almost all teams are suceptible to a 30+ point loss.

    B8ut the overall point L'irlandais makes is correct IMO

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Owens to referee Wales

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Who the hell writes this rubbish?

    "Owens' appointment is unique in the professional era of rugby union, when neutral referees take control of Test matches."


    Wales v Barbarians is NOT a test match.
    It's also not unique, Jim Fleming's final official match was to referee Scotland for their match against the Barbarians at Murrayfield in May 2001.

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