Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: The new ERRA Course for Referees

      
  1. #11

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    When would a knock on not be material? If a player drops the ball/it slips out of his hands, the offence is always material. As he or a team mate will can gather the ball. Hence you play knock on advantage to see what happens. Green knock and gain the ball back very much material. Blue gather the ball, play advantage until you bring it back or call advantage over.

    Offside on the other side of the pitch when a short pop/pick and drive by forwards doesn't have a bearing on the pop or pick and drive.
    9 fumbles ball forward an inch picking it up

    In younger age groups now in England the ref can judge that immaterial and play on.


    Knock on could be made like accidental offside.. if no advantage is gained, play on
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 14:10.

  2. #12
    Player or Coach

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    02 Nov 18
    Posts
    405
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    38

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    9 fumbles ball forward an inch picking it up

    In younger age groups now in England the ref can judge that immaterial and play on.


    Knock on could be made like accidental offside.. if no advantage is gained, play on
    There you go, it's material if spotted. Might not spot it and give benefit of the doubt. But a knock on is a knock on, if possession retained "peep - knock on"

    Yeah at young age groups, where the onus is on kids running about having fun, we have the knock-play on "Law" too. But at old/adult age groups I'd expect the skill level to be high enough to pick up the ball, so I'd ping it if seen.

  3. #13

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    There you go, it's material if spotted. Might not spot it and give benefit of the doubt. But a knock on is a knock on, if possession retained "peep - knock on"

    Yeah at young age groups, where the onus is on kids running about having fun, we have the knock-play on "Law" too. But at old/adult age groups I'd expect the skill level to be high enough to pick up the ball, so I'd ping it if seen.
    I know what the Law is, and how it is reffed
    I am suggesting a change in the Law , or custom, to introduce the concept of materiality for a knock on

    In some young age groups it's not a case of turning a blind eye .. they have a different Law : that a knock on is only penalised if the team get an advantage from it
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 18:10.

  4. #14

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,518
    Thanks (Received)
    108
    Likes (Received)
    1535

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Long kick downfield. Full back fumbles it but regains possession from the bounce. No opponent anywhere near.

    I do not see that as immaterial. The knock-on is an infringement. Retaining possession is an advantage, so I see no reason at all to let him get away with it.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  5. #15

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    It's a revolutionary idea, that is difficult to comprehend !

    It will never happen :-)

  6. #16
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Durham
    Grade
    Level 9
    Join Date
    02 Sep 13
    Posts
    813
    Thanks (Received)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    184

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Long kick downfield. Full back fumbles it but regains possession from the bounce. No opponent anywhere near.

    I do not see that as immaterial. The knock-on is an infringement. Retaining possession is an advantage, so I see no reason at all to let him get away with it.

    In RFU Land;

    - At U11 you have the option of Scrum to catchers team (weird variation to encourage kids to try and catch) or if doesn't disadvantage kickers team then option to play on
    - At U12 - U14 If doesn't disadvantage kickers team then option to play on
    - U15 > and Adult Rugby it's a knock on (although at some U15 girls standards I may call play on too)

    With regards "Retaining possession is an advantage" that surely only applies if someone from the kickers team is in place to gain possessions? If not then no advantage exists, it's only a theoretical advantage - which isn't one? (I do get your point though, and this often falls to the expectations of the players and fans).

  7. #17

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,518
    Thanks (Received)
    108
    Likes (Received)
    1535

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    With regards "Retaining possession is an advantage" that surely only applies if someone from the kickers team is in place to gain possessions?
    In my example I specified that the fumbler regained possession.
    If a team mate in front of him plays the ball, that is offside.
    If there is an opponent nearby who tries but fails to gather the ball, you clearly go back for the first infringement.

    If the materiality of the knock-on depends on the nearness of an opponent, do we really want to put referees in the position of having to decide what "near enough" means? Why complicate the issue in order to allow a player to (maybe) get away with a mistake?
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #18
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,381
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    284

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    When would a knock on not be material? If a player drops the ball/it slips out of his hands, the offence is always material. As he or a team mate will can gather the ball. Hence you play knock on advantage to see what happens. Green knock and gain the ball back very much material. Blue gather the ball, play advantage until you bring it back or call advantage over.

    Offside on the other side of the pitch when a short pop/pick and drive by forwards doesn't have a bearing on the pop or pick and drive.
    Blue kick the ball 70 mtrs down fied. Green 15 knocks on and regathers with the nearest Blue player 50 metres away.

    Can you tell me what effect on Blue there was from the knock on?

    Offside is an error in judgement of law. A knock on is a error in skills.

  9. #19
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,381
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    284

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    There you go, it's material if spotted. Might not spot it and give benefit of the doubt. But a knock on is a knock on, if possession retained "peep - knock on"

    Yeah at young age groups, where the onus is on kids running about having fun, we have the knock-play on "Law" too. But at old/adult age groups I'd expect the skill level to be high enough to pick up the ball, so I'd ping it if seen.
    This is the bit that really makes little sense. Ping lack of skill but let cheating go as long as "it does not work". There is more of an argument for ALWAYS pinging cheating whilst allowing for skill failures.

  10. #20

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: The new ERRA Course for Referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    .

    Can you tell me what effect on Blue there was from the knock on?

    .
    In fact Blue are better off as they get that much closer while green fumbles

    Arguably they don't really need to be given a scrum, greens fumble brought it's own reward for blue

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •