Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

      
  1. #1

    Referees in America
    smeagol's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CARFU RS
    Join Date
    20 Apr 12
    Posts
    377
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    17

    Default USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Very early in the game (I haven't found a video to point to yet), USA had scrum advantage from a KO. In a subsequent phase, Teo kicks, ball is touched (not charged down) by an opponent, and a USA player who appeared to be well offside from the kick catches the ball around the halfway. At that point, the ref goes back to the original infraction, and a scrum is ordered.

    I've seen/read some pundits/blowhards claim that the ref fouled up here immensely, as it appeared that the US had a chance to score. At the time, my initial instinct was that the catcher was offside, as he was not put onside by the ARG player, as it was not a charge down.

  2. #2
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Rugby Nederland
    Grade
    WR level 2
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    1,146
    Thanks (Received)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    306

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    10.7.b.iv - you only need intentional touching, not a charge down.

    Edit: oops, I understand your point now - 10m offside? Then yes, correct.

  3. #3

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    The USA player was put onside by the Arg intentional touch (10.7)

    However the grey area is 10.4.c the 10m law .

    If he was within 10m of where the ball landed it seems that despite being onside he still has to retire, as the 10m law specifically still applies when the opponent touches the ball, but not when they charge it down

    F*** knows what the Law makers meant to say when they wrote that ..

  4. #4

    Referees in America
    smeagol's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CARFU RS
    Join Date
    20 Apr 12
    Posts
    377
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    17

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The USA player was put onside by the Arg intentional touch (10.7)

    However the grey area is 10.4.c the 10m law .

    If he was within 10m of where the ball landed it seems that despite being onside he still has to retire, as the 10m law specifically still applies when the opponent touches the ball, but not when they charge it down

    F*** knows what the Law makers meant to say when they wrote that ..
    The way I read it, 10.4c still applies off the ARG touch (since it's not a charge-down), and the first line of 10.7 says that it's superseded by 10.4c

    With regards to the ball landing, the landing was the potential offender catching it.

    It's a mess to read, but if I'm right in this scenario, then this is exactly what the law is supposed to mitigate - the USA player can't take advantage of being offside from the kick just because the ball deflected off an opponent.
    Last edited by smeagol; 1 Week Ago at 19:10.

  5. #5

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Quote Originally Posted by smeagol View Post
    The way I read it, 10.4c still applies off the ARG touch (since it's not a charge-down), and the first line of 10.7 says that it's superseded by 10.4c

    With regards to the ball landing, the landing was the potential offender catching it.

    It's a mess to read, but if I'm right in this scenario, then this is exactly what the law is supposed to mitigate - the USA player can't take advantage of being offside from the kick just because the ball deflected off an opponent.
    Well he can if he is 11m from where the ball lands
    Or if he first retreats to 11m before running forward

    Also deflected doesn't put you onside at all .. only deliberately touched
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 20:10.

  6. #6

    Referees in America
    smeagol's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CARFU RS
    Join Date
    20 Apr 12
    Posts
    377
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    17

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well he can if he is 11m from where the ball lands
    Or if he first retreats to 11m before running forward
    In this instance, he was 0m from where it landed, as he caught it directly from the ARG deflection, and I don't *think* there was a retreat. I can't find a clip of the scenario, and my memory is far from perfect: KO time was ~1am local time, and I had to get up every 15-20 minutes to make sure the young'un was still on her back (still in the crib, and she's already working on rolling away from the tackle area).

  7. #7

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,429
    Thanks (Received)
    136
    Likes (Received)
    1686

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    That must be it then. 10m Law .

    Would be good to find a clip of that
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 20:10.

  8. #8
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    28 Feb 17
    Posts
    1,042
    Thanks (Received)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    106
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    So yes, the ref basically messed up under the correct application of the 10m law.

    law clarification from all the way back in 2011

    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=...arification=81
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 1 Week Ago at 15:10.

  9. #9

    Referees in England
    Phil E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Staffordshire and Royal Navy
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    22 Jan 08
    Posts
    14,843
    Thanks (Received)
    152
    Likes (Received)
    1250
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    So yes, the ref basically messed up under the correct application of the 10m law.

    law clarification from all the way back in 2011

    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=...arification=81
    It would be good if the clarification form the lawmakers made any sense in law?

    Clarification of the designated members of the Rugby Committee
    1. The act of a charge down is one where an opposition player not in possession of the ball approaches a kicker at close quarters and makes an attempt to block the kick. In such circumstances players in front of the kicker who are within 10 metres of the kick are not liable to penalty wherever the ball lands.
    2. If the ball is not charged down but is played or touches an opposition player and a player from the kicker’s side is within the 10 metre area in front of the kick that player is liable to penalty in accordance with Law 11.4(f).

    The deletion of 11.4(f) would require a Law amendment.


    What has being within 10m of the kick got to do with it if the ball lands 50m down the pitch?

    NB 11.4 is/was the offside under 10m law

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  10. #10

    Referees in America
    smeagol's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CARFU RS
    Join Date
    20 Apr 12
    Posts
    377
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    17

    Default Re: USA/ARG - Offside from kick

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    So yes, the ref basically messed up under the correct application of the 10m law.

    law clarification from all the way back in 2011

    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=...arification=81
    In this case, the ref didn't mess it up, the know-all pundits know two things - jack and shit. The USA had scrum advantage, so it went back to the original call.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •