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Thread: So, about this framework then...

      
  1. #51

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    I'm not so sure. There are some PI players in my neck of the woods - not as many as California, but some.
    They have two characteristics that differentiate them from most US players at a similar level - really good hands, and thunderous tackles.
    And therein lies the story, and the reason for this.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    The rate of cards/player-by-NationalOrigin tell a really bad story on them.
    Those thunderous tackles carry a far greater risk of crossing the line from legal into illegal than simply grasping and bringing to ground. The more thunderous tackles you make, the more likely it is you will misjudge your timing, get it wrong, and end up watching the game from the sideline for ten minutes... or longer.

    Its like driving too fast. You might get away with it for a while, but the more often you do it, the greater the chance you will have a misjudgement resulting an accident, and the worse that accident will be when you do have it.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 18-10-19 at 20:10.
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  2. #52

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post

    I remember when I did my first exchange Oop North in the Halifax area, where a lot of the players came from RL. It took me a good 15 minutes to adjust my tackle expectations because coming from namby pamby Hampshire, the ferocity and level of tackling was something I wasn't used to. The lack of reaction to tackles that in Hampshire would have been uproar was one of my guides to "Oh, OK. This is how we do it up here" - and the Assessor was pleasantly surprised at my lack of overreaction.
    Really good point and spot on for here in Australia, at least in th "rugby states". The vast majority of "rugby" people see on tv is league, its what you get accustomed to. Also a lot of kids grow up playing both games, one on sat and the other on sun.

  3. #53

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    And therein lies the story, and the reason for this.....



    Those thunderous tackles carry a far greater risk of crossing the line from legal into illegal than simply grasping and bringing to ground. The more thunderous tackles you make, the more likely it is you will misjudge your timing, get it wrong, and end up watching the game from the sideline for ten minutes... or longer.

    Its like driving too fast. You might get away with it for a while, but the more often you do it, the greater the chance you will have a misjudgement resulting an accident, and the worse that accident will be when you do have it.
    Fair, except I have seen cards and penalties for things that simply LOOKED dangerous, rather than actually BEING dangerous.

    Those decisions are disproportionately against PIs
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  4. #54

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Fair, except I have seen cards and penalties for things that simply LOOKED dangerous, rather than actually BEING dangerous.

    Those decisions are disproportionately against PIs
    Interestingly now players receiving a high tackle want the highest possible sanction (calling for cards) while the perportrators deny any high tackle wasn't high trying to avoid a sanction - it's a constant battle the referee has with players.
    I expect the battles/dissent between capt and ref about issuing RC/YC under this framework will likely increase as what LOOKS dangerous the capt will want to see a card. The poor refs won't have multiple replays and slomos so it will often be difficult to uphold the standard WR has implemented at the WC.
    It will be interesting to see how the grassroots judiciary will handle this framework (even if there is video evidence). I suspect the chocolate wheel of justice will be even more of a lottery!

    Not to suggest we shouldn't deal with high tackles seriously just that it will likely be a difficult road for a while (as it was with the tip tackle and that had a few variations over a few seasons before settling)
    Last edited by menace; 19-10-19 at 00:10.
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  5. #55

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    So Moriarty's tackle vs. France.

    Using the framework, was a YC the correct outcome?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    No need of the framework for the French card.

  7. #57

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    No need of the framework for the French card.
    Agree. That was pretty damned vicious.
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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Game of 2 red cards, one is rightfully given for thuggery and the other mitigated down to a yellow card! But I can't see the mitigation������

  9. #59

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    So Moriarty's tackle vs. France.

    Using the framework, was a YC the correct outcome?
    OK. So two things to consider: (my thoughts in red)

    1. was it a high tackle? YES

    An illegal tackle causing head contact, where head contact is identified by clear, direct contact to [the ball-carrier’s] head/ neck OR the head visibly moves backwards from the contact point OR the ball carrier requires an HIA


    2. are there mitigating factors?

    The tackler makes a definite attempt to change height in an effort to avoid ball carrier’s head NO
    The ball-carrier suddenly drops in height (e.g. From earlier tackle, trips/falls, dives to score) NO
    The tackler is unsighted prior to contact NO
    “Reactionary” tackle, immediate release MAYBE
    Contact is indirect NO

    It will be an aggravating factor that “the tackler and ball-carrier are in open space and the tackler has clear line of sight and time before contact”. YES


    IMO, lucky to get away with YC.

    In reality I don't think Jaco mentally went through the mitigating factors. He looked at the replay and just went YC from years of experience. In which case the framework is more for the fans.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 20-10-19 at 10:10.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #60

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    Default Re: So, about this framework then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elpablo73 View Post
    Game of 2 red cards, one is rightfully given for thuggery and the other mitigated down to a yellow card! But I can't see the mitigation������
    all I can fathom is that it was viewed as a "reactionary" tackle (ie a loose forward's desperate attempt to tackle an outside back). YMMV though.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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