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Thread: That haka

      
  1. #71

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    I disagree with most of this post. The haka was a Maori tradition but it has been absorbed by New Zealand culture so significantly that it is now part of our culture as a whole.

    Most - if not all - boys schools in NZ have a haka they do. Many coed schools have hakas, as do some girls colleges. Many houses within schools have hakas particular to that house. Most of these schools have a minority Maori role, but this does not impact in the slightest the enthusiasm and passion all the students have for their haka.

    Kapo O Panga, was written in 2005 specifically to be inclusive of all cultures within NZ. It embraces the non- Maori Polynesian cultures within the team. The idea that there is something wrong with Pakeha or non-Maori people embracing the haka is frankly silly.

    We as a country have a long way to go to embrace all races and cultures within our country, but we are making as good a fist of it as we can. This will continue.
    How does vulgarisation of the Haka help improve the social inequalities in New Zealand?

    Poor living conditions and health, with inadequate housing in inner urban areas and relatively high rates of unemployment, have contributed to poor self-image, violence and criminal behaviour.


    Does it help keep disadvantaged minorities out of prison? It would appear not.
    Indicators of Inequality for Māori and Pacific People

    Further reading: Public policy

    Social problems are complex, it will take more than having done a haka at school to change attitudes and inequalities.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 31-10-19 at 09:10.
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  2. #72

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    How does vulgarisation of the Haka help improve the social inequalities in New Zealand?


    Poor living conditions and health, with inadequate housing in inner urban areas and relatively high rates of unemployment, have contributed to poor self-image, violence and criminal behaviour.


    Does it help keep disadvantaged minorities out of prison? It would appear not.
    Indicators of Inequality for Māori and Pacific People

    Further reading: Public policy

    Social problems are complex, it will take more than having done a haka at school to change attitudes and inequalities.
    This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and appears to be pretty base baiting, which will be ignored.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  3. #73
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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    How does vulgarisation of the Haka help improve the social inequalities in New Zealand?
    It doesn't (as of course you know, which is the whole point of your post).

    What it does provide is a sense of pride in the Maori national heritage, which as anyone from a minority will know is also vitally important.

  4. #74

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Great article by Joe Karan (link above)
    I must admit I have trouble reading anything written by Joe Karam without rolling my eyes.

    Ian will know why.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  5. #75

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    I must admit I have trouble reading anything written by Joe Karam without rolling my eyes.

    Ian will know why.
    Talking of Ian he’s been very quiet since last Saturday......

  6. #76
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by belladonna View Post
    It doesn't (as of course you know, which is the whole point of your post).

    What it does provide is a sense of pride in the Maori national heritage, which as anyone from a minority will know is also vitally important.
    I agree that it's important, but it's not just the haka - and I don't think Tongans are a minority in Tonga.

    It's a specific part of culture that an unconnected sport specifically makes room for. Most other sports don't have rules and fines about observing the haka/sipi tau/etc. The Welsh don't consider it a matter of pride to allow the team to sing Cwm Rhondda in male voice harmony right before the match, despite that being an aspect of their culture. Irish dance is a part of Irish culture, but you don't see Ireland lining up with hands on hips... Moreso, rugby is not a traditional Maori cultural pastime; it's a European/pakeha import.

    The reason it's given a specific and highly visible place in test rugby is marketing. And it's an effective boost, a spectacular, aggressive display that people who know nothing about rugby can associate with the game. At best it's a great advert; at worst, you could accuse it of pandering to a type orientalism. But then you're already deep in a political/philosophical debate that this forum doesn't really need :P

  7. #77

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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Warren View Post
    Talking of Ian he’s been very quiet since last Saturday......
    Ha ha yes. I have also not looked at rugby forums for a while.

    Off topic slightly, but the NZ public reaction has been pretty good this time around. In 1999, 2003 and 2007 there was a lot of hand wringing, coach blaming, and even some ref blaming (in 2007). Looking back it was over the top and quite distasteful at times. This loss has been taken well. We were just beaten by a team that played better than us.

    There has been some discussion about selections and tactics but nobody seems too upset or worried about it. Shows that back-to-back RWC's and an 86% win record over 8 years takes the edge off slightly. The last couple of years (since the second Lions test really) have been average, but all things considered most fans think our run over the last 8 years - or 10 since 2009 - has been pretty good.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  8. #78

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    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: That haka

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Warren View Post
    Talking of Ian he’s been very quiet since last Saturday......
    Leave him alone! Poor chap has a much shorter turnround than he anticipated before his next game!

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    Default Re: That haka


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