Gain in ground - taken back to 22

[shep]

Hi all - question which has come up a few times since the centipede ruck has come into fashion.

Can a team get tackled outside the 22, form a ruck, for a centipede ruck, ruck the ball back into the 22 and then kick it out on the full for a gain in ground?

Under the 2017 laws this was pretty clearly not the case, what mattered is where the ruck "formed".
Under law 18.8 d part 2 it now seems that where the ruck "takes place" is what matters.

So can you take the ball back over the 22 in a ruck or maul and kick out on the full?

[Dickie E]

For me, the answer is no. Similar to a scrum that is set 23 metres out & #8's feet are 21 metres out.

And a corollary, what about a maul that forms outside 22 and gets driven back into 22? Same same for me.

[shep]

The laws give a specific guidance for rucks/mauls though, not scrums. Shouldn't they be treated differently?

[Dickie E]

Shouldn't they be treated differently?

In what way?

[crossref]

The laws give a specific guidance for rucks/mauls though, not scrums. Shouldn't they be treated differently?

Which Law are you looking at ?

[Rich_NL]

The ruck takes place where two opposing players come into contact over the ball. Not where joining players turn up.

Otherwise a player binding with a foot in touch would lead to a lineout...

[crossref]

(aside .. sadly in 18.8.d I notice that when the oppositinn player catches ball, references to the plane to f touch are missing

[crossref]

For maul I would suggest
.. defenders set up mail outside 22 and are driven back = taken back
.. attackers set up maul outside 22 and drive into it, defenders steal ball = not taken back

For a ruck I think we judge it on where the ruck was formed , not where the back feet are

[shep]

Law reference 18.8d part 2
>Either the defending team did not take the ball into their 22 or a tackle, ruck or maul took place within the 22 or an opponent touched the ball within the 22.

[Marc Wakeham]

For me the Point of 18.8.d is that AFTER the side took the ball back into their 22, a tackle / ruck / maul takes place. we are into a new "phase" and "Gain In Ground" (GIG) is allowed from a direct kick.

If the Tackle / Ruck / maul and logically a scrum MOVES into the 22 the side in possession at the start of said phase took the ball back. As no new TRMS has taken place SINCE the ball was taken into the 22 no "GIG" is allowed.

Why would you treat a scrum that has been driven back into the 22 differently?

Also creating a centipede to artificially move the ruck back should not be "rewarded" by either allowing GIG or creating a "safe zone for the 9 to clear.