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Thread: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

      
  1. #161

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Can you point us to these gay-bashing, women-bashing, etc posts? Why does he have to shut up about his belief's when they are shared by other major religions and we don't demand that they stop teaching their dogma? Catholicism & Islam both believe that homosexuality and adultery are cardinal sins but we don't see the level of vitriol and abuse being hurled at them.

    The event that kicked all this off was him posting a picture with a list of people that his church (along with Catholicism and Islam) believe are sinners - gays, adulterers, drunks, liars, fornicators, thief's, idolaters and atheists - and that the only way to avoid going to 'Hell' was to turn to Jesus. Terms like 'homophobic' or 'misogyny/misandry' are being used too often IMO that when a genuine hate crime occurs, it just becomes part of the background noise. Would the same level of hate be directed at him if he had left gay off the list?
    The minute a Catholic or Muslim player made comments like that in the way IF did, I'm pretty sure they would get the same reaction.
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  2. #162

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Well, Billy V was given a warning, but was not required to withdraw or delete the tweet

  3. #163

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think he does promote religious tolerance , while also evangelising. (a mainstream position)

    Do you have any quotes where he is intolerant of other religions
    Ok Then

    “Warning – Drunks, Homosexuals, Adulterers, Liars, Fornicators, Thieves, Atheists, Idolators
    HELL AWAITS YOU. REPENT! ONLY JESUS SAVES”
    Idolatry is the worship of an idol or cult image, being a physical image, such as a statue, or a person in place of God. In Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity, Islam and Judaism, idolatry connotes the worship of something or someone other than God as if it were God.

    He is intolerant of idolators! That makes him intolerant of all other religions that worship deities other than HIS interpretation of the one true God - it will include, among others, Muslims, Hindus, Shinto and all polytheistic religions

    Language is a powerful tool, but it becomes a weapon when it is abused in the way Folau chose to use it. He used language in a way that differentiates it from free speech; in a way that becomes bigotry.

    The way Folau weaponised language empowers and emboldens other other bigots (as we clearly have seen) to act on their homophobia. That makes Folau’s rant not free speech, but a hate crime.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 21-02-20 at 19:02.
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  4. #164

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    The minute a Catholic or Muslim player made comments like that in the way IF did, I'm pretty sure they would get the same reaction.
    And the end result would have been the same. 8 M dollar settlement

  5. #165

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post

    The way Folau weaponised language empowers and emboldens other other bigots (as we clearly have seen) to act on their homophobia. That makes Folauís rant not free speech, but a hate crime.
    Cut and dry. Now the real question, will France extradite a Tongan to Australia to face justice?
    Last edited by Not Kurt Weaver; 21-02-20 at 20:02.

  6. #166

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    While I encourage open and healthy debate....personally I dont no why you're giving this clown so much air time?

    Let his "15 minutes" of fame be over and let him fade away to be "the bottom of the birdcage lining".

    (No i have not wasted my time reading all the posts...but this damn thread keeps popping up in my "todays post" list far too often. )
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  7. #167

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post

    (No i have not wasted my time reading all the posts...but this damn thread keeps popping up in my "todays post" list far too often. )
    Well put me on your ignore list that will help. We are going for 1000 posts, you can avoid us.

  8. #168

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    The way Folau weaponised language empowers and emboldens other other bigots (as we clearly have seen) to act on their homophobia. That makes Folau’s rant not free speech, but a hate crime.
    Are you seriously calling his comment a hate crime? Is it on the same level as murder or assault? Could you point to which criminal code he has broken and if so why he hasn't been prosecuted? Saying that people will go to hell if they don't follow god/allah/budda is not a crime in Australia. Don't claim that Language is powerful and then misuse it to try to make your own point.

  9. #169

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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    Cut and dry. Now the real question, will France extradite a Tongan to Australia to face justice?
    France won’t have to extradite Israel Folau, if he lives and works in France, he will be subject to the Laws of this Land. I’d strongly suggest he watch what he posts online, only I’d hate to spoil the fun of seeing him dragged before the courts here, before too long. The debate about hate speech and freedom of speech is intricate, not sure IF is intelligent enough not to overstep the fine line drawn in French Law. Not sure he even speaks French, so his imminent conviction may come as a surprise to him.
    ę l’insulte ŗ une religion [n’est pas] une atteinte ŗ la libertť de conscience Ľ. En France, il est interdit d’insulter les adeptes d’une religion mais on peut insulter une religion, ses figures, ses symboles.
    In the linked case French courts found that the teenager concerned was entitled to her opinion that Islam was a religion of hate; sSince she insulted the religion and not any individuals. No blasphemy law in France. Those (muslims) who responded with hate speech against her homosexuality however risk conviction. Folau’s position is closer to the latter. That is he risks conviction for hate speech (here in France) if he strays from his current generalizations.

    @Jarrod He doesn’t live in Oz anymore. So Australian criminal code will be no defence under the French legal system. While I don’t agree with the French interpretation, his comments are bordering on hate speech in this country.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 22-02-20 at 07:02.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what weíre inclined to accept."
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    Default Re: Folauís online comments have taken a turn for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Are you seriously calling his comment a hate crime?
    Yes, its hate speech, and hate speech is a crime, under NSW State Law (and all the laws of all the remaining states as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Is it on the same level as murder or assault?
    Put the hyperbole away and stop being ridiculous, of course its not. There are many crimes that are not on the same level as murder or assault, but they are still crimes; burglary, car theft, embezzlement, corruption, fraud.... and hate speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Could you point to which criminal code he has broken.
    Sure

    The New South Wales Anti-Discrimination Act 1977

    The Act prohibits unlawful racial, sexual and other types of discrimination in certain circumstances and promotes equality of opportunity for all people

    The Act covers the following types of discrimination:

    Sex (including breastfeeding, pregnancy and sexual harassment)
    Disability (including past, present or future disability and also includes actual or perceived HIV status)
    Race (including ethno-religion)
    Homosexuality (actual or perceived)
    Marital or domestic status
    Age (present or future)
    Transgender (including transsexuality)
    Carer’s responsibilities (but only within employment).


    2018 Amendment to the Crimes Act 1900 No 40
    Part 3A, Division 8
    Public threats or incitement of violence on grounds of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity or
    intersex or HIV/AIDS status

    93Z Offence of publicly threatening or inciting violence on grounds of race,
    religion, sexual orientation, gender identity or intersex or HIV/AIDS status
    (1) A person who, by a public act, intentionally or recklessly threatens or incites
    violence towards another person or a group of persons on any of the following
    grounds is guilty of an offence:
    (a) the race of the other person or one or more of the members of the group,
    (b) that the other person has, or one or more of the members of the group
    have, a specific religious belief or affiliation,
    (c) the sexual orientation of the other person or one or more of the members
    of the group,
    (d) the gender identity of the other person or one or more of the members
    of the group,
    (e) that the other person is, or one or more of the members of the group are,
    of intersex status,
    (f) that the other person has, or one or more of the members of the group
    have, HIV or AIDS.

    public act includes:
    (a) any form of communication (including speaking, writing, displaying
    notices, playing of recorded material, broadcasting and communicating
    through social media and other electronic methods
    ) to the public, and
    (b) any conduct (including actions and gestures and the wearing or display
    of clothing, signs, flags, emblems and insignia) observable by the
    public, and
    (c) the distribution or dissemination of any matter to the public.
    For the avoidance of doubt, an act may be a public act even if it occurs on
    private land.
    race includes colour, nationality, descent and ethnic, ethno-religious or
    national origin.
    religious belief or affiliation means holding or not holding a religious belief
    or view.

    sexual orientation means a person’s sexual orientation towards:
    (a) persons of the same sex, or
    (b) persons of a different sex, or
    (c) persons of the same sex and persons of a different sex.
    violence includes violent conduct and violence towards a person or a group
    of persons includes violence towards property of the person or a member of
    the group, respectively.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    ...why he hasn't been prosecuted?
    You'll have to ask the authorities that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Saying that people will go to hell if they don't follow god/allah/budda is not a crime in Australia.
    Christians really believe in the whole heaven and hell thing. Its hard to think of a greater, or more violent threat to a devout Christian gay person that they will suffer eternal damnation for being gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Don't claim that Language is powerful and then misuse it to try to make your own point.
    I have misused nothing. Everything I have said here is verifiable.


    EDIT: Oh, if you don't believe that Folau's comments have incited threats

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-...heika/11513484

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...el-Cheika.html
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 22-02-20 at 23:02.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

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