Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 85

Thread: Offside by QTI

      
  1. #51
    Player or Coach

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    02 Nov 18
    Posts
    489
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Where is the law reference for there being offside at a QTI? The burden of proof is on you to find a reference for a law you want to enforce (that doesn't exist).
    I have done so already. Lineout and QTI are a method of restarting play when the ball goes out of play. Why does the burden of proof lie with me. I could equally state the burden of proof is yours as there's nothing in to LoTG to tell me as a new ref that there are no offsides in QTIs.

  2. #52

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,602
    Thanks (Received)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    1593

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But it isn't really, is it. Its the same as a PK : one team is free to play it (in the prescribed way) . Its the famous zombie ball
    The ball has to be dead before anyone can take a QTI. Therefore the QTI is not like a pass in open play.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #53

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,984
    Thanks (Received)
    147
    Likes (Received)
    1819

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    I have done so already. Lineout and QTI are a method of restarting play when the ball goes out of play. Why does the burden of proof lie with me. I could equally state the burden of proof is yours as there's nothing in to LoTG to tell me as a new ref that there are no offsides in QTIs.
    You are saying a QTI is the same as a lineout
    You might just as well say a ruck is the same as a scrum

    They are just different things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The ball has to be dead before anyone can take a QTI. Therefore the QTI is not like a pass in open play.
    I would say that if the ball is really dead they can't take a QTI

  4. #54

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,602
    Thanks (Received)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    1593

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    You are saying a QTI is the same as a lineout
    I said no such thing. The problem is that current law does not cover the situation at all, so we are having to make it up.
    I would say that if the ball is really dead they can't take a QTI
    That is what we mean by a zombie ball: it is dead but can be brought back to life without the intervention of the referee.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  5. #55

    Referees in Australia
    menace's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    ACTRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    20 Nov 09
    Posts
    3,554
    Thanks (Received)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    490
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    I have done so already. Lineout and QTI are a method of restarting play when the ball goes out of play. Why does the burden of proof lie with me. I could equally state the burden of proof is yours as there's nothing in to LoTG to tell me as a new ref that there are no offsides in QTIs.
    Arabchief you need to come to grips that the QTI and the lineout are different things. The only thing they have have in common as that they are forms of restarting play when the ball goes into touch. Once you get your head around that you'll find that the QTI in the laws has different requirements you need to manage (and offside is not one of them). You also need to understanding that the basic principles of the laws is that a player can do anything unless the law says they cant.
    The real trick around this issue of discussion is managing material offside players PRIOR to the ball going into touch (and that's usually from kicks).
    It's up to you, but if you anticipate penalising players for being offside at a QTI when there is no basis in law then you're going to have a lot of frustrated players and coaches in your ear.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  6. #56

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,602
    Thanks (Received)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    1593

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    I raised this question with a senior ref. Here is his response.
    Law 10.9 A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.
    Does this apply to a QTI?
    Law 10 is the offside law.

    Technically Quick Throw ins (QTI) fall under the same law as Lineouts...Law 18, so you could say yes. But we usually say that offside lines disappear when the ball goes dead, so you could say no?

    Sometimes as a referee you just have to think about what the law makers were trying to achieve, combined with the principles and spirit of the game.

    So we have to look at the purpose of the offside law, which is to create space and allow free flowing rugby rather than a static slogfest. When the ball goes into touch the purpose of a QTI is to get the game going quickly. There are specific laws that stop the opposition preventing a QTI by standing in the 5m channel, again to allow quick free flowing rugby.

    Essentially if a player is in an offside position when the ball goes into touch (in front of a kick which bounces into touch for instance) he shouldn't benefit from being offside. So if he inhibits the QTI (but is outside the 5m channel) the referee could penalise him for being in an offside position prior to the ball going into touch.

    If the QTI is taken and that team carry the ball 5m, or pass or kick the ball then the offside player would be put onside, so let's play on.

    The last scenario is that a QTI is taken and the receiver is immediately tackled (before he can pass or run) by a player who was in an offside position when the ball went into touch. In that case he should be penalised for being offside prior to the QTI because he is shutting down space and not playing within the spirit of the law.

    Otherwise we could have the scenario where a player is offside after a breakdown way up the field in the opposition half, but instead of getting onside he just stays there (not interfering with play) until the opposition have put him onside by passing and running the ball, allowing him to then benefit by being in their defense. Clearly that would be ridiculous.

    Great question, difficult to answer.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #57

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,526
    Thanks (Received)
    115
    Likes (Received)
    1380

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Otherwise we could have the scenario where a player is offside after a breakdown way up the field in the opposition half, but instead of getting onside he just stays there (not interfering with play) until the opposition have put him onside by passing and running the ball, allowing him to then benefit by being in their defense. Clearly that would be ridiculous.
    Provided he is complying with 10 metre law, he is quite entitled to do that.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  8. #58

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,984
    Thanks (Received)
    147
    Likes (Received)
    1819

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Provided he is complying with 10 metre law, he is quite entitled to do that.
    Indeed it's normal

  9. #59
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Rugby Nederland
    Grade
    WR level 2
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    1,234
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    338

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I raised this question with a senior ref. Here is his response.

    ...
    The last scenario is that a QTI is taken and the receiver is immediately tackled (before he can pass or run) by a player who was in an offside position when the ball went into touch. In that case he should be penalised for being offside prior to the QTI because he is shutting down space and not playing within the spirit of the law.

    Otherwise we could have the scenario where a player is offside after a breakdown way up the field in the opposition half, but instead of getting onside he just stays there (not interfering with play) until the opposition have put him onside by passing and running the ball, allowing him to then benefit by being in their defense. Clearly that would be ridiculous.
    That was (long after the fact) my feeling too. However, good luck to any grassroots refs who have to make a snap decision!

  10. #60

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,984
    Thanks (Received)
    147
    Likes (Received)
    1819

    Default Re: Offside by QTI

    .The last scenario is that a QTI is taken and the receiver is immediately tackled (before he can pass or run) by a player who was in an offside position when the ball went into touch. In that case he should be penalised for being offside prior to the QTI because he is shutting down space and not playing within the spirit of the law.
    This sounds like it is covered simply by the 10m Law , the tackler should have been retreating .

    But the scenario needs a little more detail to be able to make a decision .. did the 10m law apply. If not when did the tackler start to move forward
    Last edited by crossref; 09-12-19 at 09:12.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •