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Thread: Open play, non-maul

      
  1. #21
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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Irishref said in his OP

    "Ball at the front in the hands of the second row."

    didds
    Apo;0ogies, missed that bit. So call on them to pass the ball / break the wedge up.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Where is the ball? At the front (could be construde a Flying wedge) or back (obstrution) of the formation? is the "tackle" on the ball carrier or not (if the latter that is illegal)? We need more information.

    Taking the missing information into account, I ask red to pass the ball away if beign held at the back (CF line out situation). If held at the front I be warning about as FW and again asking that the ball is moved away (that might change if i could see exactly whay you had.

    I' then discuss it at a society meeting for confirmation of my actions.
    Ball was kept at the front by the original recipient of the pass.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    OK - I disagree that a flying wedge is barred in open play. I do agree the wording needs to be made more clear.

    "An illlegal type of attack, which USUALLY happens near the goal line, WHEN the attacking team is awarded a PK or FK"

    How I read it is the when refers to the situation that makes it illegal - the PK/FK award. But bejaysus clear up this language, which could be seen either way!

    My decision was PK against Blue. For not tackling the ball carrier, but a support player.

    The red ball carrier was always in a position to be tackled - foremost man in an arrowhead formation with the ball.

    It's a good tactic IMHO - the supporting players restrict the angle for a tackle without preventing it outright.
    Last edited by irishref; 4 Days Ago at 17:12. Reason: Typo

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    I think the reason FW is outlawed is because it's dangerous ...
    In open play it's pretty hard to form a FW, but once managed it's no less dangerous

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I suppose there is always the option to blow the whistle, say it just looks dangerous and award red the scrum (going forwards/in possession eat the time etc). IF you didnt want to go down the FW/dangerous play PK route.

    Safety - Enjoyment - Law.
    I think this might be the best answer

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    I have asked this question to a couple of colleagues at the very top end of the game dome time ago. One a Performance Reviewer and one a fully professional referee. Their answer from their perspective, which won’t help answer the question for the lower end if the game was - Yes, it’s a flying wedge. Is it illegal? Yes. Why don’t you blow for it? - It’s not expected that we blow at our level and it is not going to happen! We referee for spectators and not the players, while you have to ref for the players. Make of that what you will.
    I’d say at the level the OP operates. Play safe first always. Try to manage or blow for penalty. You do have law on your side - probably!

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    - Yes, it’s a flying wedge. Is it illegal? Yes. Why don’t you blow for it? - It’s not expected that we blow at our level and it is not going to happen! We referee for spectators and not the players, while you have to ref for the players. Make of that what you will.
    !
    I am quite shocked- that is sacrificing player safety for spectator enjoyment.

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I am quite shocked- that is sacrificing player safety for spectator enjoyment.
    Why are you shocked....don't you see player safety out the window in the professional game over and over!

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by irishref View Post
    A flying wedge is only applicable when a penalty or free kick is awarded.

    It doesn't cover open play.

    I have to say this is the first time I've ever seen this happen on a pitch.
    Where does the law book say a wedge only applies to a penalty? It appears in the foul play section only with no link to it only being applicable from a penalty.

    To me this is the very definition of a flying wedge. Now yes we all know forwards pre-bind onto opponents going into contact on a regular basis and we don't penalise that as a wedge. But if we're ever going to say something is a flying wedge then surely this is it? If it looks like a duck......

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Open play, non-maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    Where does the law book say a wedge only applies to a penalty? It appears in the foul play section only with no link to it only being applicable from a penalty.

    To me this is the very definition of a flying wedge. Now yes we all know forwards pre-bind onto opponents going into contact on a regular basis and we don't penalise that as a wedge. But if we're ever going to say something is a flying wedge then surely this is it? If it looks like a duck......
    The definition is "an illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, WHEN (my caps)the attacking team is awarded a penalty or free kick". To me the formation is the most important issue but the law authority chose to define it both by formation and situation. If the formation is dangerous, which is why it was banned, it is surely dangerous in all situations and not just the one described in the law book.

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