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Thread: Knocked out but played on

      
  1. #51

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    You could.......but then you MUST remove that player no matter what the EMT etc say!!
    what do you interpret "shot to the head" to mean? Every high tackle? A whack on the nose?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    what do you interpret "shot to the head" to mean? Every high tackle? A whack on the nose?
    Is my interpretation really relevant?

    The point is that, unless refereeing professionals, there is no HIA and if one is performed then that player has already passed the 'threshold '!

    (IRFUland )

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Player takes a shot to the head.

    Could you ask an Athletic Trainer/EMT to come on to the pitch and let you know if they suspect the player has a Head Injury? Even playing down a man while being assessed for potential Head Injury?
    If you suspect a head injury the player must take no further part in the game. Why ask an Athletic Trainer/EMT to come on to the pitch and let you know if they suspect the player has a Head Injury, when the mere fact you are asking means you suspect it?

  4. #54

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    what do you interpret "shot to the head" to mean? Every high tackle? A whack on the nose?
    I think it all depends. If he was shot to the head by that South African coach, then you’d probably be best calling the police, rather than an ambulance.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  5. #55

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Is my interpretation really relevant?
    Of course. A "shot to the head" is not necessarily a sign of concussion.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Of course. A "shot to the head" is not necessarily a sign of concussion.
    "A shot to the head" wasn't my choice of words..it was thepercy who used that phrase.

    It's irrelevant to me in the sense that thepercy goes on to ask about asking a 'medic' to give an opinion on a head injury /concussion.

    My point is, as stated by Marc Wakeham, that if you ask any medical professional their opinion on a head injury obviously you must have grounds to suspect one in which case the only option available is to remove the player.

  7. #57

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    "A shot to the head" wasn't my choice of words..it was thepercy who used that phrase.

    It's irrelevant to me in the sense that thepercy goes on to ask about asking a 'medic' to give an opinion on a head injury /concussion.

    My point is, as stated by Marc Wakeham, that if you ask any medical professional their opinion on a head injury obviously you must have grounds to suspect one in which case the only option available is to remove the player.
    OK I'm sure I know what you mean but, using your words, seeking medical advice on a "head injury" is not necessarily a concussion. A player may have a cut on his/her face or a blood nose or a black eye that is a head injury requiring medical attention but not requiring removal.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    OK I'm sure I know what you mean but, using your words, seeking medical advice on a "head injury" is not necessarily a concussion. A player may have a cut on his/her face or a blood nose or a black eye that is a head injury requiring medical attention but not requiring removal.
    Yes of course....sorry, I was presuming we were discussing a potential 'Head injury ' as in a potential concussion type.

    Of course there are many types of 'head injury' as you correctly point out!
    Last edited by Decorily; 12-12-19 at 22:12. Reason: Spelling

  9. #59

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Yes of course....sorry, I was presuming we were discussing a potential 'Head injury ' as in a potential concussion type.
    I guess you guys look for the same symptoms as us. Slurred speech, complaint of dizzyness or headache, unsteadiness on feet, vomiting, etc. And, of course, loss of consciousness.

    You might find this of interest:

    https://australia.rugby/about/codes-...ion-management


    Signs (what may be seen)
    ▪ Dazed, blank or vacant look
    ▪ Lying motionless on ground / Slow to get up
    ▪ Unsteady on feet / Balance problems or falling over / Uncoordinated
    ▪ Loss of consciousness or unresponsive
    ▪ Confused / Not aware of plays or events
    ▪ Grabbing / Clutching of head
    ▪ Seizure (fits)
    ▪ More emotional / Irritable than normal for that person
    Symptoms (players may report)
    ▪ Headache
    ▪ Dizziness
    ▪ Mental clouding, confusion, or feeling slowed down
    ▪ Visual problems
    ▪ Nausea or vomiting
    ▪ Fatigue
    ▪ Drowsiness / Feeling like ‘in a fog’/ Difficulty concentrating
    ▪ “Pressure in head”
    ▪ Sensitivity to light or noise
    Memory (questions to ask)
    ▪ “What venue are we at today?”
    ▪ “Which half is it now?”
    ▪ “Who scored last in this game?”
    ▪ “What team did you play last week / game?”
    ▪ “Did your team win the last game?”
    Last edited by Dickie E; 12-12-19 at 22:12.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Knocked out but played on

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    If you suspect a head injury the player must take no further part in the game. Why ask an Athletic Trainer/EMT to come on to the pitch and let you know if they suspect the player has a Head Injury, when the mere fact you are asking means you suspect it?
    There's a risk of perverse outcomes here: if refs start to tell coaches that ANY assessment (by anyone) means a player can't continue with the game then an incentive to avoid the assessment has been created (in theory, I'm not saying it's happened). The English 'headcase' approach (can't speak for other unions) is not meant to be a "gotcha" but a quick on-pitch way of establishing if a player who might have suffered a concussion is exhibiting any signs that would lead to a suspicion of concussion.

    The point is to remove on the establishment of any suspicion, not on the "might".

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