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Thread: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

      
  1. #51

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    If he attempted the kick at posts, but accidentally hooked it badly, so with the same outcome. Would you allow the try to stand ?
    Of course. The ball can often hit the posts and land on the field of play, any back worth his salt will be alive to the chance to chase up and dot the ball down in the in-goal, attacking or defending back.

    The referee is entitled to ask the kicker if he intends to kick for goal. We should be careful not to be sucked into any gamesmanship (surprise tactic). The match referee cannot be party to any deception. Why would we ask? So we know what to expect; you don’t want to be caught off guard if he’s kicking for the corner - you need to be ready to sprint after the ball.
    Law 8 has a raft of obligations along these lines
    8.19
    The kicking team must indicate their intention to kick for goal without delay.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 15-12-19 at 13:12.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  2. #52

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    I think that asking is likely to get you sucked in. Just watch

  3. #53

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I am still not sure in what circumstances a referee would ever ask ?
    I do.

    If we're all stood around and there's no tee and I've had no discernible call from Captain or prospective kicker then I might ask "what you doing?"

    I usually get a reply of "we're going for the line" or there will be a look to Captain who will confirm/decide. Sometimes we all (me, captains, kickers) get caught up in the moment and sometimes there is an assumption on the part of captains, kickers, referees etc that we all know what the other(s) are thinking.

    I don't think it hurts to ask when the occasion demands it and I never inadvertently stumbled into some "sneaky PK conspiracy ruse" by doing so.

    I'm not sure why you wouldn't given that when we discussed kicking off late you felt you never refereed teams seeking to get one over on each other (or words to that effect).
    It's like a big tide of jam coming towards us, but jam made out of old women......Father Dougal McGuire 1998

  4. #54

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Ah, Ok if a team is taking so long to make a decision that the issue is they are wasting time .. then I certainly agree that it's right for the referee to hurry them up. Although I would do rather do that directly, by asking them to hurry up, rather than in a roundabout way by asking them if they are kicking for goal or not.

    I guess I was thinking of a scenario where the ball is handed to the 10 who says nothing but starts to stare out at the posts as if sizing up a kick ... Perhaps he is planning a ruse ? In that sort of situation I would stay alert and get on to my toes ready to move .. but I wouldn't say anything .. let that play out
    Last edited by crossref; 16-12-19 at 15:12.

  5. #55

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Well, without getting in a circular discussion about it, the problem is once again the laws of the game are poorly written.
    Since Law 8.19 is quite clear they MUST indicate their intention (to kick at goal) without delay.

    If the laws dropped the words in brackets the problem would be solved. Since if they decide to kick for touch, they are under no obligation to inform the referee. Poorly written, as it overlooks the possibility of the kicker pretending to place kick to try and catch the opposition napping on a kick for the corner. As a ref you are left wondering why the bloke is taking so long.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  6. #56

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    the kicker pretending to place kick
    how does he/she pretend to place kick such that the ref isn't going to require them to actually place kick?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  7. #57

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    I have not had the problem; since like Lee L-P I have no qualms about asking the kicker if he intends kicking for goal, or NOT. «*Don’t faff about, get on with it.*» *Faff, by Cambridge

    Do a forum search the topic has cropped up several times where some referees have felt duped by kickers involving them in a deceitful ploy.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 17-12-19 at 06:12.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
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  8. #58

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    I have not had the problem, since like Lee L-P I have no qualms about asking the kicker if he intends to kick for goal. Do a forum search the topic has cropped up several times where refs have felt duped by kickers involving them in a deceitful ploy.
    the only duping that is possible is if the place kicker is so skillful that he can make it look as though he has genuinely had a shot at goal while in reality intentionally shanking or slicing the ball so that it lands in the arms of the winger in the corner. I doffs me lid to that man. Well played, sir.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #59

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Too lazy to do a forum search and provide us with a convient link to a discussion, which details how a fellow referee got roped in?
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  10. #60

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Too lazy to do a forum search and provide us with a convient link to a discussion, which details how a fellow referee got roped in?
    Pretty much. If you're gonna quote it, you're gonna source it.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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