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Thread: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    So to be clear the law book DOES NOT specify a scrum for an incorrectly take kick. You could allow a retake.
    You could, but giving the kicking team a free shot at conning the referee does not seem equitable or fair.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by smeagol View Post
    You could, but giving the kicking team a free shot at conning the referee does not seem equitable or fair.
    So restart with a 22m dropout ..

  3. #23

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    20.8 The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.

    The place kick to touch is clearly an infringement.

    2016 law book
    21.4 [...] Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker's team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


    This does not appear to be covered by the current Laws 19 or 20. I suggest we stick with the 2016 law, which makes rugby sense.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #24
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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    So we are told to blow the whitstle

    7.3 Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately when:
    e. A quick throw, free-kick or penalty is taken incorrectly.

    But as you say Law 20 tells us what the kicking team must do
    20.5 to 22.11 inclusive

    But not what to do if they don't.
    But I do nto believe they actually tell us that the opposition have to stand still and keep quiet - there is just a picture saying they cannot raise their hands - again with nosanction.

    But then my veiws on the law book are well known.

    8.22
    If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the opposing team must
    stand still with their hands by their sides from the time the kicker starts to approach to
    kick until the ball is kicked.


    Covers the standing still bit.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    20.8 The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.

    The place kick to touch is clearly an infringement.

    2016 law book
    21.4 [...] Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker's team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


    This does not appear to be covered by the current Laws 19 or 20. I suggest we stick with the 2016 law, which makes rugby sense.
    That seems logical. A quick check of the law book shows:

    Laws: 8.21, 12.1, 12.6, 12.8, 12.9. 12.12, 12.17, 12.18, 21.12 All are either a scrum or options (that include a scrum) to the "non-offending" team

    Where the standard is not followed:

    8.7. d., 8. Kick is disallowed in both cases (conversions)

    And

    12.12 b Free-kick.

    It seems clear that the general inference is a scrum rather than a retake would be correct. I'm guessing no team would take an option of "kick again" were it to be offered.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    So to be clear the law book DOES NOT specify a scrum for an incorrectly take kick. You could allow a retake.
    The law book specifies the restart for anything not explicitly covered in law. It's a scrum.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    The law book specifies the restart for anything not explicitly covered in law. It's a scrum.
    ...but the place kick to touch IS explicitly (if inelegantly) covered by law.

    If you choose to apply Law 19, it says:-
    The referee awards a scrum for any other reason not covered in law. In the scrum zone at the point closest to the place of stoppage. The team that was last moving forward or, if neither team was moving forward, the attacking team.


    I would certainly find it odd if the kicking team were awarded the scrum.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #28

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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    The law book specifies the restart for anything not explicitly covered in law. It's a scrum.
    Same for an incorrectly taken tap penalty?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Many years ago in a 7s tournament having been awarded a penalty near the touchline on the 25 (yes it was that long ago) I dug my heel into the ground and placed the ball but did not indicate a kick at goal (in fact I told the referee I was not kicking at goal). The opposition, not privy to this conversation retreated under their posts meanwhile I nudged the ball off its mark picked it up and touched down in the corner.
    Was the referee right to award the try?
    Will Macclesfield RUFC ever forgive me?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: another kick at goial kicked for try post!

    Quote Originally Posted by timmad View Post
    Many years ago in a 7s tournament having been awarded a penalty near the touchline on the 25 (yes it was that long ago) I dug my heel into the ground and placed the ball but did not indicate a kick at goal (in fact I told the referee I was not kicking at goal). The opposition, not privy to this conversation retreated under their posts meanwhile I nudged the ball off its mark picked it up and touched down in the corner.
    Was the referee right to award the try?
    Will Macclesfield RUFC ever forgive me?
    Seems to me that you DID indicate your intention to kick at goal in 'heeling and placing'!

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