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Thread: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

      
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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    I think I've got 2 issues with this, the 2nd isn't really about the video in the OP.
    1. There is no Maul regardless if you say "would be Maul," there's no maul according to the criteria in Law. So as soon as the catcher-come-ball carrier steps, the ball has left the LoT. Therefore LO offside doesn't apply as we're in open play. Just shout open play now. Therefore IMO the ref here was wrong.
    2. I wonder if when there has been a contest when dummy runs have been made when player leave the line to be in position to form the maul early if this ref has penalised that?

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    While rugby is very much a thinking man’s game, perhaps members of the tight five might do better to abstain from trying to be too blooming clever.
    A. N. Other French example of why we shouldn’t encourage this sort of thing.

    Has the ball carrier left the lineout first? In my view the referee’s correct in saying Black left the lineout first by stepping back. By leaving the lineout first they are offside and so are not entitled to tackle, or even join the maul without first retreating to the line of non-participating players.
    I have viewed it several times and cannot see them stepping back out of the lineout before the ball is caught and the ball carrier starts to move forward.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Fair enough. I was more trying to explain what decision had been taken in French. No problem accepting the match referee may have been incorrect. I guess our use of uncontested maul is in itself incorrect/misleading.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    The sanction for leaving the lineout is a free kick though, if hes playing advantage for that and then pings them for being offside that would be very much a "gotcha" pen and really not something that you should be considering doing esp in such a tight game like that and at such a crucial stage of the game.
    Courage is knowing what lies on the other side and still opening the door !

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelflife View Post
    The sanction for leaving the lineout is a free kick though, if hes playing advantage for that and then pings them for being offside that would be very much a "gotcha" pen and really not something that you should be considering doing esp in such a tight game like that and at such a crucial stage of the game.
    Agreed...and as I said earlier I think it was an error and poor decision by the referee.

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    My conclusion is that the ref made an error. My logic:

    No maul formed, ball at front with carrier - players allowed to move forward according to the directive.

    Defenders left a gap for them to move forward without leaving the lineout.

    Lineout over the moment the ball, in the arms of the receiver, crosses the original lineout mark. In effect, 1 or 2 steps from the receiver means lineout over.

    Neither team seemed to do anything wrong and both seemed clued up as to the options available. The atttacking team ensured the ball carrier was in a position to be tackled. The defending team left the gap then attempted a legitimate tackle without forming a maul.

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishref View Post
    My conclusion is that the ref made an error. My logic:

    No maul formed, ball at front with carrier - players allowed to move forward according to the directive.

    Defenders left a gap for them to move forward without leaving the lineout.

    Lineout over the moment the ball, in the arms of the receiver, crosses the original lineout mark. In effect, 1 or 2 steps from the receiver means lineout over.

    Neither team seemed to do anything wrong and both seemed clued up as to the options available. The atttacking team ensured the ball carrier was in a position to be tackled. The defending team left the gap then attempted a legitimate tackle without forming a maul.
    So .. play on ?

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    So .. play on ?
    Yup, I would not gave blown my whistle here.

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    For some reason it's not on the IRB site - http://hertsrefs.co.uk/docs/2013_14/..._-_Lineout.pdf . (it's also a tad old at 2014)

    IRB clarification for teams choosing not to engage at the lineout

     if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by "leaving theline out as a group", PK to attacking team;

     if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by simplyopening up a gap & "creating space" & not leaving the line out, the following processwould be followed:
    - attackers would need to keep the ball with the front player, if they were to drivedown-field (therefore play on, general play
    - defenders could either engage toform a maul, or tackle the ball carrier only);- if they had immediately passed it back to the player at the rear of the "group",the referee would tell them to "use it" which they must do immediately...
    - if they drove forward with the ball at the back (did not release the ball), thereferee would award a scrum for "accidental offside" rather than PK forobstruction.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Uncontested lineout drive/ maul - penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcroker View Post
    For some reason it's not on the IRB site .
    No longer current ?

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