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Thread: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    the problem is that relatively innocuous offences such as 'obstruction' and 'throwing ball into touch' are included in law 9.
    Even more innocuous offences such as time wasting are include also.....which I suppose is exactly the point I am trying to make ( poorly obviously! )
    So when I am TJing /ARing and the Ref tells his team that he wants us to flag 'foul play' I'm pretty sure he/she wouldn't be impressed if I stuck a flag out and,when asked, reported time wasting! !

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Even more innocuous offences such as time wasting are include also.....which I suppose is exactly the point I am trying to make ( poorly obviously! )
    So when I am TJing /ARing and the Ref tells his team that he wants us to flag 'foul play' I'm pretty sure he/she wouldn't be impressed if I stuck a flag out and,when asked, reported time wasting! !
    True although a time wasting incident would be unlikely during a knock-on advantage period.

    However: Blue knock on 5 metres from own goal line, ref calls advantage, ruck forms, Red win ball, and Red SH intentionally knocks on (ie commits foul play) cos Red want the scrum.

    Wotcha gonna do?

    9.7 A player must not:
    Intentionally infringe any law of the game.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    I'm gonna award Red the Scrum with a word to Red 9 that they might want to be careful about intentionally knocking on because next week they could have a pedantic ref who may penalise them !!

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    True although a time wasting incident would be unlikely during a knock-on advantage period.

    However: Blue knock on 5 metres from own goal line, ref calls advantage, ruck forms, Red win ball, and Red SH intentionally knocks on (ie commits foul play) cos Red want the scrum.

    Wotcha gonna do?

    9.7 A player must not:
    Intentionally infringe any law of the game.

    well I sympathise but I guess this depends on whether any one ref will PK players in such circumstances - as debated here before.

    didds

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    Level 3 Ref (IRFU) seanaodh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    True although a time wasting incident would be unlikely during a knock-on advantage period.

    However: Blue knock on 5 metres from own goal line, ref calls advantage, ruck forms, Red win ball, and Red SH intentionally knocks on (ie commits foul play) cos Red want the scrum.

    Wotcha gonna do?

    9.7 A player must not:
    Intentionally infringe any law of the game.
    This is a great question. I wonder if you'd be pinged for getting this 'wrong' at the top levels. I've never seen it done, and I'm nearly sure I've seen advantages end with something that wasn't too bad but technically under law 9.

    Comes under game management for me, I'd be going with the advantage every time unless it's what most people think of as foul play.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    For me the decision about whether to go back to the original offence is not just about whether the second offence is under law 9, but whether it is the sort of offence that might make you change the penalty, eg for retaliation or a punch/strike or whatever.

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    True although a time wasting incident would be unlikely during a knock-on advantage period.

    However: Blue knock on 5 metres from own goal line, ref calls advantage, ruck forms, Red win ball, and Red SH intentionally knocks on (ie commits foul play) cos Red want the scrum.

    Wotcha gonna do?

    9.7 A player must not:
    Intentionally infringe any law of the game.
    I tell 9 and the captain before kick off that if they don't want the advantage, just tell me and I'll blow.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    I tell 9 and the captain before kick off that if they don't want the advantage, just tell me and I'll blow.
    So you'd give a PK against Red?

    But you're skirting the point (somewhat mischeiviously, I expect). The point is: do all the clauses in law 9 trump a knock-on advantage (as required by Law 7) or only those that we would consider dangerous play (as required by common practice & common sense)?
    Last edited by Dickie E; 13-01-20 at 23:01.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by seanaodh View Post
    ... Comes under game management for me, I'd be going with the advantage every time unless it's what most people think of as foul play.
    Makes sense. Foul Play should trump a technical infringement.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Penalty offence by team that didn't knock on while playing advantage for the KO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    So you'd give a PK against Red?

    But you're skirting the point (somewhat mischeiviously, I expect). The point is: do all the clauses in law 9 trump a knock-on advantage (as required by Law 7) or only those that we would consider dangerous play (as required by common practice & common sense)?
    And you, just as mischievously, are asking questions you already know the answer to
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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