advantage story

[crossref]

It’s not about time or number of phases: it’s about gaining tactical or territorial advantage. The advice we’re asked to give is that, within the 22, a penalty advantage should either lead to a score or the award of the original penalty - no advantage over.

I think after a PK deep in your own half it's possible to gain sufficiently territory for adv over ... If you go further than you could kick it basically

[colesy]

I think after a PK deep in your own half it's possible to gain sufficiently territory for adv over ... If you go further than you could kick it basically

Agreed, no issue with that at all. I was talking about a situation where the attackers are inside the defender’s 22 and the defenders commit an offence.

[Rich_NL]

I remember Joubert gave a gold penalty advantage over in the 22 during the AUS-ENG test in 2016, I think the second match. After many phases... It raised eyebrows at the time.

[beckett50]

So, my question, is : What's the longest time/number of phases you play a PK advantage for ?

The short answer is "It depends"

In the scenario you gave I may have continued but then if the attack became stagnant because all that was happening was lateral movement then I'd have blown for "No Advantage" and gone back to the original offence.

I tend to play a longer penalty advantage in the "Red Zone" to give the attacking team freedom of action.

[Arabcheif]

I think I've got a fairly high rate of playing out advantage (I've not noted it down or anything, just how I like to play, so I ref it as such. I'll tend to judge it on...
a) is the non offending team still in possession and going forward.
b) Are they further forward than they would be if they'd kicked for touch (this might be difficult to judge early on, I give it about 25-30m until I can see what kind kicker they have).
c) Time isn't really relevant unless the non offending team aren't going forward, then no advantage go back for the pen.

Clear and Real are the keywords here too. So getting half a meter further forward each phase to me isn't c & r. Normally this would happen inside the 5m area, I prob blow after a few pick and goes and there was nothing really happening.

[didds]

Clear and Real are the keywords here too. So getting half a meter further forward each phase to me isn't c & r.

so 8 pick and goes making 4m deep inside the oppo 22 isnt clear and real?

Oh...

didds

[Phil E]

a) is the non offending team still in possession and going forward.
b) Are they further forward than they would be if they'd kicked for touch (this might be difficult to judge early on, I give it about 25-30m until I can see what kind kicker they have).

I assume you are talking about penalty advantage here?
You appear to only be playing territorial advantage.
See 1.a below and discuss

1. Advantage :
a. May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
b. May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
c. May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
d. Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.

[Arabcheif]

so 8 pick and goes making 4m deep inside the oppo 22 isnt clear and real?

Oh...

didds

Not sure what you're meaning. I said making half a meter or so each phase to me isn't really clear and real. Given that if we went for the pen straight away, they'd prob have a LO 5m ish from the try line, so I'm gonna call it back after 3 or 4 phases and they only made about 2m ground. I'll let them try and create space out wide an ship it out, but I won't wait too long.


"I assume you are talking about penalty advantage here?
You appear to only be playing territorial advantage.
See 1.a below and discuss "

Yeah Pen advantage.
Territorial and tactical. My 1st question to myself is do they still have the ball (tactical), if they kick it and lose possession I'm calling it back. If they kick it and regain possession, it'll depend how far down the field we are, have they had a good chance to attack. If they regain possession and its 50ms down the field then I'm calling advantage over, 10 ms I'm letting it breathe, see how it pans out (territorial).

[didds]

I suppose what I mean is all the time they are making ground going forward why call it over. If you call it over after 2 goes and "only" 1 metre gained what is to say 8 attempts later they wont have scored in such a manner?


If they've gone literally nowhere linearly after several attempts that's fair enough to call over. If they've lost ground ditto.

maybe I'm just not getting what you mean.

didds

[Arabcheif]

I suppose what I mean is all the time they are making ground going forward why call it over. If you call it over after 2 goes and "only" 1 metre gained what is to say 8 attempts later they wont have scored in such a manner?


If they've gone literally nowhere linearly after several attempts that's fair enough to call over. If they've lost ground ditto.

maybe I'm just not getting what you mean.

didds

Didds, I'm meaning after multiple phases with advantage. I'm not gonna wait for 20 phases and potentially 5 mins of play to pull it back. This to me isn't an advantage. As point 4 say - an opportunity to gain advantage isn't advantage. So if there been 4/5/6 phases and there's been no clear and real advantage, I'm calling it back. If they make 6m in the first phase, 4m in the 2nd phase and 15m the next phase, then to me that clear and real- territorial and tactical advantage and I'm like to to call advantage over at this point.

But if their losing or only make very small amounts of ground each phase, I'm likely to blow as there is not real advantage for that. As I said, I have a high rate of playing out advantage. I had a match on Sunday. There was about 15/16 pens combined. I thin I blew for 7 or 8 of them. 5 times the defending team weren't back 10 but I blew twice (maybe 3 times) as the attacking team got the advantage.