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Thread: Knock on into the dead ball area.

      
  1. #71
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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    From the description in my original post I would now give a scrum.

    If the ball was knocked on in goal.... I would give a scrum.


    From the original post I sensed I had made a mistake and just wanted to check. I didn't think it would go onto 7 pages of responses!

  2. #72

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchie851 View Post
    . I didn't think it would go onto 7 pages of responses!
    bwa ha ha ha ha haaaaa

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    My 2p:

    Advocates of awarding the 22DO for a KO in or into the IG and made that argue that awarding a 5m-scrum the attacking team is better off as compared to the case where they didn't knock on in the first place and put the ball IG legally. In my view, the attacking team is never better off in this scenario because by knocking on, they are losing any chance to score a try in current play. The 22DO is there to create a high-risk vs high-reward situation for kicking the ball into IG: there is no need to bring a team back 22m when they already penalised themselves by losing a scoring-chance AND possession. It is reasonable instead to reward with the 22DO the defending team who managed to successfully defuse the threat of a loose ball put legally in their IG respectively to penalise the team trying a risky play, like a grubber into the IG, and screwing it up (e.g. miskicked and ball goes dead).

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Yes, but that's another argument without any reference to the Law Book

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    My comment is aimed at explaining the rationale behind awarding a scrum. Previous versions of the law book and clarifications were pretty clear about the decision to be taken in such cases: a 5-m scrum. Although the new law book lacks clarity on this topic, I see no reason to think that it should be interpreted any different than we did in the past.

  6. #76

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    My comment is aimed at explaining the rationale behind awarding a scrum. Previous versions of the law book and clarifications were pretty clear about the decision to be taken in such cases: a 5-m scrum. Although the new law book lacks clarity on this topic, I see no reason to think that it should be interpreted any different than we did in the past.
    so in 100 years time white haired referee sages will be saying to the new sprogs "don't worry about what's in the book, I have a fable to share with you"
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  7. #77

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    My comment is aimed at explaining the rationale behind awarding a scrum. Previous versions of the law book and clarifications were pretty clear about the decision to be taken in such cases: a 5-m scrum. Although the new law book lacks clarity on this topic, I see no reason to think that it should be interpreted any different than we did in the past.
    The Laws we should apply now are those in the 2020 book

    But if you prefer an old law book .. the 2017 one drew a distinction between a knock on INTO the in goal, and a knock on INSIDE the in goal.

    Do you think that distinction still stands ?

  8. #78

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The Laws we should apply now are those in the 2020 book

    But if you prefer an old law book .. the 2017 one drew a distinction between a knock on INTO the in goal, and a knock on INSIDE the in goal.

    Do you think that distinction still stands ?
    The 2017 book is identical to the 2016 version that I quoted earlier at #66.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not a scrum is awarded, but simply the location of that scrum. If the knock-on was in in-goal then the scrum has to be on the 5 metre line. If it was into in-goal, then the scrum is where the offence took place.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    so in 100 years time white haired referee sages will be saying to the new sprogs "don't worry about what's in the book, I have a fable to share with you"
    No. I believe we should rewrite the law book to improve it. The last revision was explicitly meant not to change anything. The fact that it failed to do it effectively without losses doesn't mean we should now make up a different interpretation. It's not like the 2020 book now suddenly says you must award a 22DO: it is just unclear about what the correct restart would be, hence I'll stick to what it used to be as it is the sensible thing to do in my view.

  10. #80

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    Default Re: Knock on into the dead ball area.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    It's not like the 2020 book now suddenly says you must award a 22DO:
    yes it does:

    12.11 Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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