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Thread: Offside at scrum

      
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    Default Offside at scrum

    I wish to discuss and or seek views on the difference in of law 19.28 which says start of play ( is this when you call for a scrum) and and law 29.30 which says scrum begins ( which is when the ball,leaves the hand of the scrum half)

    27;. Players remain onside for the duration of the scrum.
    28. Prior to the start of play in the scrum, the scrum-half of the team not throwing in the ball
    stands:
    a. On that team’s side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half, or
    b. At least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team’s last player in the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum.
    29. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.
    30. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
    a. Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in
    the space between the flanker and the number eight or
    b. Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
    c. Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.
    Vimal Perera

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    I’m not sure what your point is. There is nothing inconsistent or confusing in that wording.

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    I’m not sure what your point is. There is nothing inconsistent or confusing in that wording.
    Except that there is no point in 19.30 c as it is farther back than 19.30 b!

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    Except that there is no point in 19.30 c as it is farther back than 19.30 b!
    The scrum half can stay at the hindmost foot under b, but if he moves back to the 5m offside line he can not move forward until the scrum has ended.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The scrum half can stay at the hindmost foot under b, but if he moves back to the 5m offside line he can not move forward until the scrum has ended.
    I know one could read it that way, but I am never going to ping a S/H who retires behind the back foot and then wanders about and may just step over the 5m back line when if he comes forward again makes him offside. For me the 5m line only applies if he does no line up beside the scrum at the start.

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    I know one could read it that way, but I am never going to ping a S/H who retires behind the back foot and then wanders about and may just step over the 5m back line when if he comes forward again makes him offside. For me the 5m line only applies if he does no line up beside the scrum at the start.
    I disagree. If he retires to the 5m offside line he loses any scrum half rights.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    So it would be sensible for him to retire only 4.9m to retain the right to come back closer? I am never going to police that!

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    So it would be sensible for him to retire only 4.9m to retain the right to come back closer? I am never going to police that!
    Any scrum half who tries to be that "clever" deserves to be deprived of his rights.

    Lineout law specifies that a receiver should be 2m from his lineout colleagues and the sanction is a Free Kick. I recently saw a scrum half who kept wandering back to 5m or more get sanctioned (after a couple of warnings). It makes sense - the aim is to clarify who is the scrum half/receiver and not allow him to confuse the issue.

    If you get a scrum half who mucks about, warn him.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    So it would be sensible for him to retire only 4.9m to retain the right to come back closer? I am never going to police that!
    What part of the law allows the scrum-half to wander about between the back of the scrum and the offside line 5m back? The Scrum-half has 3 choices follow the attacking scrum-half, go to the back foot of the scrum or go all the way to the 5m offside line. They start to move towards their side's back foot they are down to 2 choices; go past the back foot and they are going back to the 5m offside line and if they don't are liable to be penalised as being off-side.

    Unless someone knows differently, this would seem to be what we are supposed to referee.

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    Default Re: Offside at scrum

    My point was what is the difference in play starts in 28 as against scrum begins in 29 .
    Vimal Perera

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