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Thread: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

      
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    Default Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Some of the videos in the rugby laws app are baffling to me. Look at this one. White 18 gets pinged for playing the ball, just before yellow 9 does the same. Apparently this is an example of him not binding. Is he supposed to bind onto yellow 9 or will he then get pinged for playing the 9. There is no one else to bind to.

    Is there a legal way for white 18 to win this ball?


    D7EB9BE2-B8E5-4ADE-922C-8E8D4CEF44CD.jpg

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    It's not clear but the ref appears to give an offside signal with his left arm. Either way, weird choice for that law.

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    I think it's cause there had been a ruck. Those 2 players went to ground. The ball was still in the the ruck/tackle area, so he was offside or in from the side because he didn't go through the gate? It's the same video on the website.

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Its a ruck, and the ball is not out.

    There is no legal way for white 18 to play the ball with his hands (PK for hands in the ruck)

    There is no legal way for him to step forward until the ball is out of the ruck (PK for offside at the ruck)

    His only legal option is to wait until the Gold 9 lifts the ball, and THEN step forward and attempt to tackle him before he can get the ball away.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Its a ruck, and the ball is not out.

    There is no legal way for white 18 to play the ball with his hands (PK for hands in the ruck)

    There is no legal way for him to step forward until the ball is out of the ruck (PK for offside at the ruck)

    His only legal option is to wait until the Gold 9 lifts the ball, and THEN step forward and attempt to tackle him before he can get the ball away.
    If it is still a ruck, should there not be a legal way for him to join it, even if it is on the ground (obviously not 'collapsed' because that is not allowed)?
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    In theory he could bind on and push them all off it ?

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    But if all the "participants" are collapsed and laying all over the floor, the new binding rucker most likely will end up with his shoulders below his hips on contat - which is at least a bad technical point, and is ringing a bell about PK/illegal ruck entry etc

    ??

    didds

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    If it is still a ruck, should there not be a legal way for him to join it, even if it is on the ground (obviously not 'collapsed' because that is not allowed)?
    Sure


    Joining a ruck

    5. An arriving player must be on their feet and join from behind their offside line.

    6. A player may join alongside but not in front of the hindmost player.

    7. A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body



    White 18 didn't do any of these things. Instead, he advanced ahead of the ruck offside line while the ball was still in the ruck and tried to pick it up.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 3 Weeks Ago at 19:03.
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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Sure


    Joining a ruck

    5. An arriving player must be on their feet and join from behind their offside line.

    6. A player may join alongside but not in front of the hindmost player.

    7. A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body



    White 18 didn't do any of these things. Instead, he advanced ahead of the ruck offside line while the ball was still in the ruck and tried to pick it up.
    I see the white 19 form a ruck and drive the gold player off the ball.

    I'd say the ruck has ended because the ball is clear of the players that formed the ruck.

    If, as WR appear to, you think there is still a ruck (whose participants are now on the ground) then the white offside line is formed by White 19, and White 18 remains behind White 19. There are still tacklers on the ground but we went from tackle phase to ruck phase already, so no TWOL.

    Before White 18 goes for the exposed ball, Gold 14, the tackled player, plays the ball again after having released it.

    I don't think this is a great clip for law 15.7!

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    Default Re: Law 15.7 binding onto player in the ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmore View Post
    I see the white 19 form a ruck and drive the gold player off the ball.

    I'd say the ruck has ended because the ball is clear of the players that formed the ruck.
    Show me where it says that in Law. All I can find is....

    ENDING A RUCK
    18. The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.


    The "players that formed the ruck" are not mentioned.

    Given your interpretation, what happens if another player binds onto a player who formed the ruck. If the ball then moves behind/beyond the feet of the player who formed it, but remains in front of the feet of the player who just joined, then your interpretation above would mean that the ball has left the ruck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmore View Post
    If, as WR appear to, you think there is still a ruck (whose participants are now on the ground) then the white offside line is formed by White 19, and White 18 remains behind White 19. There are still tacklers on the ground but we went from tackle phase to ruck phase already, so no TWOL.
    Firstly, once a ruck its formed, it does not matter if all the players have gone off their feet - the ruck remains a ruck until the ball has left it.

    Second, I completely disagree with the bolded statement.



    The white offside line is the white line I have drawn past the gold player's right shoulder

    The gold offside line is the gold line I have drawn behind the players hindmost to the gold side

    OFFSIDE AT A RUCK
    4. Each team has an offside line that runs parallel to the goal line through the hindmost point of any ruck participant. If that point is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for that team is the goal line.


    I know it used to say hindmost foot of the hindmost team mate, but not any more - that law has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmore View Post
    I don't think this is a great clip for law 15.7!
    I agree. With anything upwards of 150 tackle/rucks per game, you would think that one game out to be enough to give a few better examples to choose from
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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