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Thread: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

      
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    Default Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    There’s a discussion ongoing on Facebook Quilter Kids First group about a volunteer coach/referee dealing with an abusive opponent coach. I have advised that there is no basis in law for restarting with a penalty to the non-offending coach’s side - after all, it’s not the players’ fault their coach is being a dick. But later down the thread, someone has contributed the following:

    “You can now penalise the opposition with a penalty sanction if you feel that as a referee you are getting abuse from the coaches or supporters. This came down to level 2 refs earlier this season ... just warn everyone before the game that this will happen.... after a team I reffed got marched back 80 m in one half in total, they soon learnt!!! The players told everyone to shut up 😂”

    I find this very hard to believe, but wanted to check in with the RRF crowd to see if you had heard anything like this via official channels in other societies and/or unions. Anybody?
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    You can't give a PK

    You can insist that the coach leaves the playing enclosure (unless you are in a public park obv)

    you can submit a Match Official Abuse report (effectively the same as a RC report, will lead to a process and a ban )

    You can .. in extremis .. abandon the game
    Last edited by crossref; 27-01-20 at 09:01.

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    Yup, sadly got close to this (in my head) yesterday in a U15 Girls Cup game of all things, junior coach / volunteer running the line stepped on the pitch and started screaming at me about something that happened 5 minutes prior, he was boiling. Asked him to relinquish his flag but in terms of on pitch I just apologised to the girls for his behaviour and restarted as expected. (Sadly I suspect his frustration was as usual because he couldn't hear my comms to the players who had no issues with the call)

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    I love the phrase "this came down to level 2 refs earlier this season". I have visions of a Moses like figure clutching tablets of stone, touring rugby clubs, declaming the word of the RFU. If this happened though, I must have missed it and I haven't been made aware of any such directive. I assume that individual league or tournament organisers could impose such a rule if they wanted.

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    Not sure what they mean by Level 2.

    Do they mean someone who has done the Level 2 (now ERRA) course, or do they mean a level 2 ref, which would mean Championship Refs?

    I can't imagine Championship Refs have been told to do this, and as Vice Chairman of our Society I have seen no circulars stating this.

    I would also question the management of any ref that marches a team back 80M.

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    You can't give a PK

    You can insist that the coach leaves the playing enclosure (unless you are in a public park obv)

    you can submit a Match Official Abuse report (effectively the same as a RC report, will lead to a process and a ban )

    You can .. in extremis .. abandon the game
    This is the point I have made. I appear to be the only Society referee commenting on the thread, yet there is a chorus of people claiming justification for penalising the players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    I love the phrase "this came down to level 2 refs earlier this season". I have visions of a Moses like figure clutching tablets of stone, touring rugby clubs, declaming the word of the RFU. If this happened though, I must have missed it and I haven't been made aware of any such directive. I assume that individual league or tournament organisers could impose such a rule if they wanted.
    Sounds like talking out of his ar$e in order to appeal to a made-up authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Not sure what they mean by Level 2.

    Do they mean someone who has done the Level 2 (now ERRA) course, or do they mean a level 2 ref, which would mean Championship Refs?

    I can't imagine Championship Refs have been told to do this, and as Vice Chairman of our Society I have seen no circulars stating this.
    This is the confirmation I needed, thanks Phil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    I would also question the management of any ref that marches a team back 80M.
    Right?!
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    This idea used to be gospel over here until USA R explicitly and publicly said "no"
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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    You can send an abusive coach - or member of the coaching team - from the playing enclosure (think Steve Diamond and Richard Cockerill) - but that only means they are behind the fence as opposed to "in the Box".

    You can involve the Club suits and get the coach removed - but if it is the 'away' coach then you may struggle to find a "suit"; and even more so at a Junior game on a Sunday.

    Remember that you can only a player, whether on the Field of Play or on the Substitute Bench.
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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Not sure what they mean by Level 2.

    Do they mean someone who has done the Level 2 (now ERRA) course, or do they mean a level 2 ref, which would mean Championship Refs?

    I can't imagine Championship Refs have been told to do this, and as Vice Chairman of our Society I have seen no circulars stating this.

    I would also question the management of any ref that marches a team back 80M.
    I read it as a total of 80m over several (8?) incidents. I think If I was getting that much grief for a coach he'd be gone with a CoC would be on its way.

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    Default Re: Penalising players for coach’s actions: myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    ... I would also question the management of any ref that marches a team back 80M.
    I read that bit twice, but what I think he means is 80 metres in total and not 80 metres in one hit.

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