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Thread: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Regarding the scrum penalty, I was looking for an example and was surprised to find one very similar... on the WR Laws website!
    Law 8.3 has a video showing a PT for something almost identical... Funny that
    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=8&language=EN

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Clearly. ..really?
    .....before it hit the ground.. . .you need to reread the relevant law!
    Well if I need to re-read the relevant law so does the TMO - because that's exactly what he said!! "Clearly regathered before touching down". Word. For. Word.

    Edit: Relevant law seems to be the definition of "knock on":

    Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

    https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=2#let11


    And yes, it didn't hit the ground (nor any other player) before being regathered. I didn't say anything about not hitting the other player as the ref's concern was whether the ball had been dropped before being touched down - and it wasn't.
    Last edited by belladonna; 22-02-20 at 23:02. Reason: Addition of relevant law

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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    No. The arm was sweeping round in a tackle motion - which he completed - and his eyes were on the player, not the ball.
    No.
    Please watch the iplayer replay (if you can from the USA) and then tell me again that it was a single sweeping motion in making the tackle... actually the arm is moving downwards to slap the ball! And yes, it didn't look like that in real time, nor in any of the replays I saw during the match...

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    The fact you use the word "bottle" shows that you have an agenda. An agenda free question would have asked what we thought of his decision making process, which would have been far more interesting. So please peddle that stuff somewhere else.
    My agenda is that in this match the ref bottled two important calls that would, in most other internationals, have been called PT's. Perhaps I am wrong, and am interested to hear opposing views, supported by evidence - as well as those which support my own. If you don't like to hear that people think refs sometimes get it wrong, or come here to say "hey, the ref got that wrong didn't they", then what is this site for?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Carley said that the AR on-field call was that it wasn't deliberate, and that there was nothing clearly and obviously wrong with that decision.
    At least we can agree on that

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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    @Belladonna

    Forget about the TMO....
    Back yourself. . Is hitting the ground the only criteria for a knock on?
    Last edited by Decorily; 22-02-20 at 23:02. Reason: Edit. ..clarity

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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    No - and I just answered this in my edit to my post above.

    But it wasn't relevant at the time - the ref was concerned if he'd dropped it prior to touch down, not if he had lost control of it and it had bounced off the other player.

    Either way it was a nailed on try.

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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by belladonna View Post
    No - and I just answered this in my edit to my post above.

    But it wasn't relevant at the time - the ref was concerned if he'd dropped it prior to touch down, not if he had lost control of it and it had bounced off the other player.

    Either way it was a nailed on try.
    Yes....our 'Edits' crossed. ....but you contradict yourself.
    Of course it was relevant. ...ie" he lost control of it and it bounced of the other player", to quote your own words!!

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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Yes....our 'Edits' crossed. ....but you contradict yourself.
    Of course it was relevant. ...ie" he lost control of it and it bounced of the other player", to quote your own words!!
    No - that's not what I meant at all!

    Perhaps the addition of another "if" would help?

    The ref's was concerned if he'd dropped the ball prior to touch down, not, if he had lost control of it and (if) it had bounced off the other player.

    What I'm saying is that not only did it NOT hit the other player, there was no concern raised by the ref or the TMO at the time that the ball had hit the other player.

    Biggar regathered before the ball hit anything else other than thin air or himself - so clearly a try.

    So yes technically you are right a KO can also happen if the ball touches another player before being regathered (not just if it hits the ground) - but this wasn't a concern at the time, so it didn't even cross my mind.

    Is that any clearer?
    Last edited by belladonna; 23-02-20 at 00:02.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Just seen the "knock on" on Twitter. NO WAY is that a Penalty let alone a card or a PT. The Frenchman is making a tackle and the ball hits him,.

    For my money I'd not even call it a knock on as the bll hits the player not the otherway around (I know the law says it is an ACCIDENTAL KO and I'll referee it as such. But I feel it is unfair to the tackler.)

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    I was surprised the Bigger try stood - lost on the way down is usually not given, no?
    Did he regain control BEFORE the ball hit the ground or another player?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Wales v France - Did the ref bottle it?

    Quote Originally Posted by belladonna View Post
    Please watch the iplayer replay (if you can from the USA) and then tell me again that it was a single sweeping motion in making the tackle... actually the arm is moving downwards to slap the ball! And yes, it didn't look like that in real time, nor in any of the replays I saw during the match...

    Ok:

    It was a single sweeping motion in making the tackle.

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