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Thread: Double Movement and Mauls

      
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    Default Double Movement and Mauls

    Hi All,

    I refereed my first games over the weekend. All youth games but even that was a bit of a baptism. Came out of the day with a lot of questions I am hoping you all will be able to help me with. Thought I would start off with just a few of the many questions...

    1. Double movement - a try is scored if the players momentum carries them in a continuous movement along the ground into the opponents' in-goal. What if it is clearly a double movement and it is not momentum? What is the decision?

    2. Maul in goal – laws say that mauls can only form in the field of play. What if a maul forms in-goal? Attacking player took the ball over the goal line and maul forms – is this a quick call to say ball is held up in goal, and restart with a 22DO?

    3. Maul in goal – defending player takes ball backwards over goal line and a maul forms – is this a quick call to say ball held up, then restart with a 5m scrum attacking team to put in?

    Thanks All.

  2. #2
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    1) penalty to defenders om 5m - it's the same as playing on the ground.
    2) it is held up in goal, but that doesn't lead to a 22DO - see law 21.17
    3) same outcome as 2)

    Welcome!

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Quote Originally Posted by dt79 View Post
    1. Double movement - a try is scored if the players momentum carries them in a continuous movement along the ground into the opponents' in-goal. What if it is clearly a double movement and it is not momentum? What is the decision?
    remember too that a player can reach out to ground the ball for a try. What he can't do is propel himself. If penalised the secondary signal is the 'not releasing ball' signal
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Two good answers .. welcome dt

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Agree with the answers.

    A few general points to add:

    1: Avoid the term "double movement". The tackled player must act immediately. So he can place the ball. But if it is not
    "immediate" you have an offence.

    2: Youth games are a tough baptism, in many cases. Youngsters need very creful handling. Testosterone is in plentyful supply. If yo ucan control a bunch of 16 to 19 year olds. you can control most things.

    3: Reflect on your games. DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP over errors. Take 2 or 3 positives and negatives from a game and pat yourself on the back for the positives and reflect on the negatives. DON'T try to sort it all out at once. It takes time to become a good referee. Some things take a long time. You can't get "experience" out of a tin. That only come with errrrrrr experience!

    4: Talk to advisors / fellow referees even players. Chat to them in the bar afterwards. A bit of "praise" and you can get them to tell you all sorts.

    5: Learn the law book and use site like this and https://rugbyreferee.net/ (The podcasts aloje a superb tools!) to get ideas.

    6; Join your local society and get involved in discussions. Don't be afraid to have an opinion. BUT!!!!!! Listen to the old sages. If 20 guys telly you that you're wrong, ask why are you out of line. It might be worth recalibrating your ideas.

    7: ENJOY it.

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    1) penalty to defenders om 5m - it's the same as playing on the ground.
    2) it is held up in goal, but that doesn't lead to a 22DO - see law 21.17
    3) same outcome as 2)

    Welcome!
    But as the OP stated very correctly, in 2) "Attacking player took the ball over the goal line" and in 3) "defending player takes ball backwards over goal line". So that determines the different resulting outcomes after the ball is deemed dead due to the same cause.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Really? You'd give a 22DO for held up?

    Edit: Sorry, that reads a lot snarkier than I intended. I mean to say, I believe 21.17 indicates an attacking scrum 5 regardless of who has the ball or who brought it in.
    Last edited by Rich_NL; 25-02-20 at 10:02.

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Agreed.

    Held Up = Scrum attacking ball

    Ball made dead. Who took the ball in decides.

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    But as the OP stated very correctly, in 2) "Attacking player took the ball over the goal line" and in 3) "defending player takes ball backwards over goal line". So that determines the different resulting outcomes after the ball is deemed dead due to the same cause.
    I think you may have confused yourself....I see your logic but it doesn't apply here!

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    Default Re: Double Movement and Mauls

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Agreed.

    Held Up = Scrum attacking ball

    Ball made dead. Who took the ball in decides.
    It's another example of the confusion in the Law book, as when it is held up, the ball IS dead.

    So it should be

    Held up = attacking scrum

    Touched down by attackers = try

    Kicked right through by attackers = scrum/22 options to defenders

    Made dead in any other way = 5m scrum or 22 DO depending on who put the ball into the in goal

    (Caveat different laws apply if it's a restart kick)
    Last edited by crossref; 25-02-20 at 12:02.

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