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  1. #11

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Crossref - I didn't post and run. Belladonna - you are correct that I thought that I would receive an automatic email.

    Notwithstanding the above a big thank you to both of you. My great grandfather studied at Camborne School of Mines in 1896-97 and I know that he then went to South Africa to work which falls in with this being a Transvaal Rugby Union cap.

    You have both helped me immensely and I am truly grateful.
    Last edited by ruareftrev91; 13-03-20 at 13:03. Reason: I missed a line

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruareftrev91 View Post
    Crossref - I didn't post and run. Belladonna - you are correct that I thought that I would receive an automatic email.

    Notwithstanding the above a big thank you to both of you. My great grandfather studied at Camborne School of Mines in 1896-97 and I know that he then went to South Africa to work which falls in with this being a Transvaal Rugby Union cap.

    You have both helped me immensely and I am truly grateful.
    You are very welcome - it's been a pleasure and a privilege helping you put an honoured piece of your family history into place

    On a personal note, I was lucky enough to live in Johannesburg for nearly a decade, and became a fervent Transvaal supporter, which is part of what helped me find the "Union" part of the puzzle.

    This was back in the day when Francois Pienaar was captain so we're going back a bit here!

    I went to quite a few matches, including the famous 1993 Super-10 Final, which we won, narrowly. I was seated in the front row near the middle of the ground and as the tension burst at the final whistle we surged blindly, joyously, onto the field... it was only when I got half way across the pitch that I came to, and thought to myself "goodness, what on earth am I doing here?!?"

    Crazy times... it wouldn't be allowed nowadays, and good thing too for player safety. I've watched the highlights on youtube but (un?)fortunately can't spot myself.

    I wasn't lucky enough (OK, rich enough!) to see the RWC Final, but I did see Lomu steamroller us (Wales) into submission in one of the pool matches, which was of course disappointing but was quite something to see the legend in action. I watched the RWC Final at the nearby Wits Stadium with thousands of other SA fans (SA being my second love, rugby-wise). When the SAA jumbo flew over at 400 ft it was quite something! And of course when the match ended there was a beer shower everywhere!!

    Ah... happy days

    Anyway like I say, very happy to help and good luck with the rest of your researches.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    I sent the picture to a South African contact (Paul Dobson) who, with the help of a well-known historian, gave a a detailed identification:
    Hymie Sibul and I agree.

    The cap is the Griqualand West cap for the 1904 Currie Cup tournament played in East London. Western Province won. They beat Griquas who came second.

    A brim was added at the bottom of the cap for the 1906-07 tour to Britain, Ireland and France.

    The candidates for ownership of the cap, i.e. those who were at the 1904 tournament and went on the 1906 tour:

    AF Marsburg
    SC de Melker
    FW Dobbin
    WC Martheze
    JWE Raaff

    I could give you little biographical details of each.
    If you want the brief biographies to try and identify your source, I will enquire further.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    So , OB , that's interesting, but doesn't fit so well with the family history
    what are the letters on the cap ?
    Last edited by crossref; 15-03-20 at 13:03.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Hello OB,

    My great grandfather was called John E Peters, he was from Camborne, Cornwall. Inside the cap is a makers label for a company in Edinburgh.
    Thanks for your efforts so far.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Seems to me one the 5 forementioned 06 tourists gave or traded with John E Peters.

    the 06 tour matches are listed on wiki, 22 Dec 06 had a game with cornwall played in redruth

    We do have a former poster from redruth rfc, not sure the "chopper" is still around He may have info on that game.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    That's not a springbok cap

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruareftrev91 View Post
    Hello OB,

    My great grandfather was called John E Peters, he was from Camborne, Cornwall. Inside the cap is a makers label for a company in Edinburgh.
    Thanks for your efforts so far.
    My expert friend has changed his mind: the cap is indeed Transvaal, as was said earlier. They came third in the Currie Cup behind Western Province and Griqualand. Possible owners were AO Morkel, WS Morkel, D Mare.

    I will relay your further information.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    Further information
    This is fascinating.

    The 19806 Springboks played Devon in Devonport and James Peters played flyhalf against them. He was known as Darkie Peters, the first coloured man to play for England. He played flyhalf for England five times and later played rugby league for Barrow. He apparently worked in the dockyard at Devonport.

    Sadly in those dark days – 42 years before the nasty Afrikaner took over government and launched apartheid - the South Africans objected to playing the match because of Peters but did so and won 22-6.

    Of that list of Transvaal players I gave you, Sommie Morkel played in the Devon match and he may have given his cap to Peters. It was common practice to swap caps in days when a player had only one jersey and in many cases had to hand it in at the end of the season.

    That it was made in Edinburgh is no surprise at all, as the Cape Colony had no such ability. The 1906 Springboks did not get ties, blazers, caps, etc until they had been in England for three weeks. – all made in the UK. And then it was their idea to get them and the team had to pay for them, either from gate money or individually. The first match after they received their garments was against Devon. It was the seventh match of the tour.

    If it was Sommie Morkel (names Willem Somerset) he fought for the Boers on the Anglo-Boer War and was pow on St Helena for over two years where he organised rugby matches.
    I should have recognised the name Peters ...
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Can anyone help please?

    the OPs ggrandfatehr was John, not James, and Jimmy Peters didn't move to the south africa, and wasn't a miner
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Peters_(rugby)

    So they aren't the same person (sadly)

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