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Thread: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

      
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    Rugby Club Member GingerSeaMonster's Avatar

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    Default Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Yesterday I was reffing a BUCS women's match. Good natured game, apart from blue teams 10 who I gave an RC, but that's another story!

    Anyway, Blue team had a great player who had quite long dreadlocks which were mostly tied up, she made a great break and was about 4m out from scoring when White fullback went to tackle her from behind and, in my opinion, missed her body but grabbed a hand full of dreadlocks, pulled her head back, causing Blue player to drop the ball. I was only a couple of meters away, immediately blew and separated the teams before anything could flare up, which I didn't honestly think would. I had a few moments thought, and issued a YC to the FB, she was massively apologetic to me and the Blue player, who accepted her appologies. I then awarded a PT.

    After the match had ended, won by Blue who were more experienced and physical, White coach questioned the PT. I explained that if she hadn't had her head pulled back illegally she would have scored, he disputed that and said it should have just been a YC which was sufficient punishment in his opinion. I said it met all of the criteria for a PT and she was lucky not to get an RC instead of YC.

    Thoughts please on the PT and whether or not should have been RC instead of YC. or

    Regards, GSM

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    The question is, where a try *probably* would have been scored if not for the hair pull. Taking the offender out of the scenario (I see the phrase "beam me up Scotty" used often), were any other defenders in a position to stop a try from being scored?

    Re: card, how did the Blue player land?

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    I think you're right to award the PT - 4ms out chasing defender behind her. Even if the tackle had been legal, their momentum would probably have taken them over the line. As for the card, I suppose there's a shout for it. I suppose it would depend on if you felt she deliberately grabbed the BC's hair or if it was a genuine accident.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    The law doesn’t require “certain”, it only requires “probable”, which to me is 51% plus. Sounds like a solid case in your scenario.

    The “beam me up” test is a good one - imagine the circumstance in which the offending dreadlock-puller were zapped up to the USS Enterprise. Is there anyone else to beat? Anyone else gaining on ball carrier to make a cover tackle? Etc.

    The fact the hair-puller might have prevented the try with a legal tackle is irrelevant - if the law asked us to take that into consideration, there would never be any penalty tries anywhere, ever.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    High tackle - initial contact with the head.
    Clear foul play.

    If no tackle try is probably scored - so no problem with PT and YC minimum.

    As to RC, as ever we did not see it, you did.
    It would be going through my mind, but it sounds like you got it right.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    A hair pull is a high tackle. .so apply the high tackle framework.. you may well end up at RC

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerSeaMonster View Post
    I said it met all of the criteria for a PT and she was lucky not to get an RC instead of YC.
    1) coach is a twat and should count his/her lucky stars it wasnt a RC
    2) FB is lucky, but..
    3) you've got the whistle
    4) its a nailed on PT.

    The only contentious part is whether is Y or R. Red woud have been warranted (even if genuinely accidental). But - you've got the whistle.

    But I'm a coach - the other ref's will provide solid answers on that one.

    I think you handled it well frankly GSM.



    didds

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    The law doesn’t require “certain”, it only requires “probable”, which to me is 51% plus.
    I think the normal requirement is higher than 51%, which is not really significant (not that it makes much sense to express the judgement in percentages).
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Unless she'd have had to charge through another defender, a PT sounds spot on. Foul play that prevents a try.

    Reading the story, I'd have expected a red card, but it depends and is your call. You were there!

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Agree you handled it well and unless there were a couple of tacklers just about to stop the blue player it is a PT. As for the card, it is a high tackle, but only you saw the force applied and how the player fell, so could easily see that a YC might be most appropriate. Also you knew the temper of the game.

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