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Thread: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    As all others have said, no problems with PT. Personally I would require more like 66% probability, but there is no hard and fast way to judge that.

    Hair-pulling can be deliberate or a mistake - a mistake usually results in an immediate release (I had one last weekend in LA 7s that didn't even halt the BC, who continued on to score - not a YC, so just a talking to, which both captains were happy with). However, dreadlocks could be hanging below shoulder level (that doesn't make it not high) and could be almost involuntarily grabbed by flailing hands in a missed tackle, especially from behind. So mitigation should always be considered.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerSeaMonster View Post
    Yesterday I was reffing a BUCS women's match. Good natured game, apart from blue teams 10 who I gave an RC, but that's another story!

    Anyway, Blue team had a great player who had quite long dreadlocks which were mostly tied up, she made a great break and was about 4m out from scoring when White fullback went to tackle her from behind and, in my opinion, missed her body but grabbed a hand full of dreadlocks, pulled her head back, causing Blue player to drop the ball. I was only a couple of meters away, immediately blew and separated the teams before anything could flare up, which I didn't honestly think would. I had a few moments thought, and issued a YC to the FB, she was massively apologetic to me and the Blue player, who accepted her appologies. I then awarded a PT.

    After the match had ended, won by Blue who were more experienced and physical, White coach questioned the PT. I explained that if she hadn't had her head pulled back illegally she would have scored, he disputed that and said it should have just been a YC which was sufficient punishment in his opinion. I said it met all of the criteria for a PT and she was lucky not to get an RC instead of YC.

    Thoughts please on the PT and whether or not should have been RC instead of YC. or

    Regards, GSM
    Sounds like you got it spot on to me. The PT is a no-brainer. The YC is always debatable, but from what you've said there was no excessive force or an attempt to swing the player so a RC would be excessive. I always think the other players' reactions can be a good guide - though not always - so if no one is reacting aggressively to what transpired it probably means a RC isn't warranted.

  3. #13
    Rugby Club Member GingerSeaMonster's Avatar

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    Agree you handled it well and unless there were a couple of tacklers just about to stop the blue player it is a PT. As for the card, it is a high tackle, but only you saw the force applied and how the player fell, so could easily see that a YC might be most appropriate. Also you knew the temper of the game.
    Thanks for all of the feedback. The general consensus seems to be that the PT was a good decision. There were no other defenders on the try line or able to tackle the dreadlocked ball carrier.

    The other debating point around red or yellow seems to be around the temper of the game, as I mentioned in the OP, it was a good natured game, some of the players knew each other, particularly the better players and captains. I think red would have been too harsh in this instance and stand by that. An assessor may disagree, but when you are out there you generally have a feel for the game and your finger on the pulse so to speak

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Long hair is a forseeable & unacceptable risk to its owner (like wearing jewellery). IMO it should be contained in a scrum cap.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Once you called it PT then the queston is YC or RC.

    From the description, PT was correct and as an "accidental" grab of the hair (as per the description) then a YC also sounds the correct call.
    Last edited by Marc Wakeham; 05-03-20 at 19:03.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by GingerSeaMonster View Post
    Thanks for all of the feedback. The general consensus seems to be that the PT was a good decision. There were no other defenders on the try line or able to tackle the dreadlocked ball carrier.

    The other debating point around red or yellow seems to be around the temper of the game, as I mentioned in the OP, it was a good natured game, some of the players knew each other, particularly the better players and captains. I think red would have been too harsh in this instance and stand by that. An assessor may disagree, but when you are out there you generally have a feel for the game and your finger on the pulse so to speak
    I think that - now we have a framework - it's incumbent on us to follow the framework.

    There is allowance there to mitigate down from RC to YC , but temper of the game is not included

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    All sounds good to me. Usual crap arguments from a one eyed coach in my book. I wish they would swallow an empathy pill before speaking which would force the To see things from an independent viewpoint, or at least understand an alternative view to theirs is possible. Wishful thinking I know.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    All sounds good to me. Usual crap arguments from a one eyed coach in my book. I wish they would swallow an empathy pill before speaking which would force the To see things from an independent viewpoint, or at least understand an alternative view to theirs is possible. Wishful thinking I know.
    I had a game a few weeks ago when a coach came up to me after the game and said that I was being very hard on their opposition....only joking, that never happens!

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    I've had lots of coaches highlight mistakes they thought I made to the detriment of their team. In 6 years I've never yet had a coach who pointed out a mistake I made where their team benefitted. Can't think why not.

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    Default Re: Penalty Try or not? Opinions please

    Take out the Foul Play - and therefore the #15 - from the scenario.

    Would the player have scored a try?

    If the answer is "Yes" then it is a PT and - of course - a YC .

    Also, was the try scored? It it was could it have been scored in a more favourable position but for the foul play - in other words could share/he have run behind or nearer the posts to make the conversion easier? If that is the case you can still award the PT and
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